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Does gun control work?
- Thread starter swan
- Start date
excalibur
DARKLY Regular
I live 15 mins from lancaster city which ranked in the top 50 a few years ago as most dangerous in the US, Yes the same Lancaster that gives you the AMISH the city is different. I am also about 30 minutes from Reading which has been in the top 25 and I also work from time to time in Camden, NJ and Philly.
You guys have NO CLUE what you are talking about when it comes to the American Culture. YOU are making your opinions based on what you hear from a LIBERAL media and a media that ONLY reports the bad. Ever here about the Park City mall massacre? That's what I thought no you haven't because 4 men with concealed weapons stopped 2 men with an arsenal of weapons from entering the mall with their weapons. If they had just called the cops guess what those cops would not have been there for 5 minutes and by then who knows how many people would have been dead before taking hostages. That only got a small mention on the 2nd page of the LOCAL newspaper. That doesn't sell newspapers.
I can come up with all kinds of bullshit about Canada if I all did was listen to what i have heard. If you haven't lived it don't act as tho you know it all.
You guys have NO CLUE what you are talking about when it comes to the American Culture. YOU are making your opinions based on what you hear from a LIBERAL media and a media that ONLY reports the bad. Ever here about the Park City mall massacre? That's what I thought no you haven't because 4 men with concealed weapons stopped 2 men with an arsenal of weapons from entering the mall with their weapons. If they had just called the cops guess what those cops would not have been there for 5 minutes and by then who knows how many people would have been dead before taking hostages. That only got a small mention on the 2nd page of the LOCAL newspaper. That doesn't sell newspapers.
I can come up with all kinds of bullshit about Canada if I all did was listen to what i have heard. If you haven't lived it don't act as tho you know it all.
excalibur
DARKLY Regular
They don't have to right here either but guess what I can get a gun on the street in a matter of minutes if I tried a gun not linked to me and for half the price as what i would pay in the store.
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
Once again a narrow sighted point of view of a liberal.
I don't need a gun to feel safe, I don't conceal and carry. That does not mean I shouldn't have the right to buy guns and shoot them off at my cabin if I wish.
There will be no open conversation, I am right, and if you try to take my guns you will only get the bullets.
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
You don't talk your self out of a bad situation. If you can talk yourself out of a situation it isn't that bad.
Just another case of liberal canadians living in Lalaland.
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
Of course they don't.
The mental disease known as liberalism thrives off idealism, not reality.
swan
DARKLY Regular
Steve and excalibur
you guys have so many logical fallacies in your arguments that my mind starts to implode just reading your comments. steve, you especially seem to be extremely closed minded, and that is exactly the root of the problem when an entire society faces issues such as these. you have both stated at least once that "no one is going to come and take my guns", as if someone had threatened you with that at any point. this is not the case and has never been. no one has argued "let's get rid of all the guns".
anyway... instead of picking apart all the logical fallacies being used here, here's a helpful graphic of some basic logic fallacies that automatically render any argument false/invalid.
also, let me just add that it's not just you two. everyone is guilty of it sometimes, i've just noticed you two doing it pretty consistently throughout this conversation. that could easily be a result of a strong passion for the topic leading to a slight over zealousness (word?). that's pretty common.
you guys have so many logical fallacies in your arguments that my mind starts to implode just reading your comments. steve, you especially seem to be extremely closed minded, and that is exactly the root of the problem when an entire society faces issues such as these. you have both stated at least once that "no one is going to come and take my guns", as if someone had threatened you with that at any point. this is not the case and has never been. no one has argued "let's get rid of all the guns".
anyway... instead of picking apart all the logical fallacies being used here, here's a helpful graphic of some basic logic fallacies that automatically render any argument false/invalid.
also, let me just add that it's not just you two. everyone is guilty of it sometimes, i've just noticed you two doing it pretty consistently throughout this conversation. that could easily be a result of a strong passion for the topic leading to a slight over zealousness (word?). that's pretty common.
Attachments
excalibur
DARKLY Regular
Call them what you want, you aren't any less "close minded" on the subject than we are.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.
Murder rate has dropped 25% in the US since the the semi-automatic rifle ban ended. Murder rates have dropped as gun ownership has INCREASED. FACT!
* Between February 2004 and February 2010, 1,225 firearm and three explosives background checks for people on terrorist watch lists were processed through the federal background check system. Of these, 91% of the firearm transactions and 100% of the explosives transactions were allowed.
SEEMS as tho the laws are not the problem but the ass hats "enforcing" them
Funny how Ill. is the only state in the US that does not issue concealed weapons permits and is home to the highest gun murder rates in the US.
* Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 15% lower.
* Since the outset of the Texas right-to-carry law, the Texas murder rate has averaged 30% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 28% lower.
* Since the outset of the Michigan right-to-carry law, the Michigan murder rate has averaged 4% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 2% lower
HMMMMM seems like another shot at liberals
* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower
HOLY SHIT how about that
THESE ARE FACTS. POKE HOLES IN THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.
Murder rate has dropped 25% in the US since the the semi-automatic rifle ban ended. Murder rates have dropped as gun ownership has INCREASED. FACT!
* Between February 2004 and February 2010, 1,225 firearm and three explosives background checks for people on terrorist watch lists were processed through the federal background check system. Of these, 91% of the firearm transactions and 100% of the explosives transactions were allowed.
SEEMS as tho the laws are not the problem but the ass hats "enforcing" them
Funny how Ill. is the only state in the US that does not issue concealed weapons permits and is home to the highest gun murder rates in the US.
* Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 15% lower.
* Since the outset of the Texas right-to-carry law, the Texas murder rate has averaged 30% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 28% lower.
* Since the outset of the Michigan right-to-carry law, the Michigan murder rate has averaged 4% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 2% lower
HMMMMM seems like another shot at liberals
* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower
HOLY SHIT how about that
THESE ARE FACTS. POKE HOLES IN THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$alvador
TD Member
What facts? Crime rates fluctuate naturally and correlation does not imply causation. Maybe crime rates are dropping because the rate of incarceration of Americans has exploded. I guess like someone said, yall are just caught in a vicious cycle where there are so many guns available that everyone needs one or any crazy fuck on the street can treat you like a victim. That is truly depressing.
Toronto seems to make the news quite a bit with shootings in public places yet we have strict gun control here. The shitty part is, I can't carry a gun to protect myself from these scumbag gang bangers. At least in America I would have a chance to protect myself and others and not be totally at the mercy of these cocksuckers.
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
You really think our streets are that unsafe? You must be the biggest caker alive
excalibur
DARKLY Regular
Just as I thought an OPINION used to dispute facts. Rates have been on a CONSISTENT decline check the site for yourself. Like we have said you know nothing about the real life in the United States you are basing your thoughts on media reports, good news doesn't make the news only the bad.
$alvador
TD Member
what? i was saying there's no need for CCW, but according to yall shit is so violent you NEED a gun all the time so fuck
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
No according to us, we deserve the right to decide for ourselves whether we feel the need to conceal. No need for liberal law makers who make 200k a year and live in free housing from the state to make that decision for us.
Okay, lets brake this down.
Some gang banger walks in and starts shooting at someone
You pull a gun and shoot him.
Case Closed! YAY! Welcome to the land of Cocks and Rainbows
Of course no one else carrying a gun shoots at you because like is like a video game and everyone knows who the bad guy is!
Or you know CHAOS happens which is reality. A gun fight occurs, No one knows who is good/bad or shooting at who because when you're in a mall and guns are going off I doubt anyone can fucking hear shit or have the time to properly process anything.
Excalibur has been the only one too give a legitimate reason why owning a gun is a good thing: Stupid Fucking Criminals, and in both case's a fake gun with a good pokerface would have been just as good.
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
And you liberals are yet to explain how being unarmed in your hypothetical situations would help.
Brades point is that he wouldn't be at the whim/mercy of the scumbag, that he would at least have some ability to control his own safety.
But yes cock we should all conceal fake guns.
Brades point is that he wouldn't be at the whim/mercy of the scumbag, that he would at least have some ability to control his own safety.
But yes cock we should all conceal fake guns.
http://bit.ly/10Kjcja <--- The amount of accidental Shooting/Deaths should be limited. I want to save lives from people who are too stupid to handle guns or just fucking cray-cray, yet still do. I care about my fellow innocent Americans, do you?
No one here as stated a reason for logically needing a real gun in these situations.
So far your hypothetical situations are no different then mine.
In truth there are too many *what if* statements I can make, and you'll just rebut with your perfectly hypothetical situation of being the hero.
Which comes back to my point above, this becomes your perfect hypothetical hero situations vs. my chaotic hypothetical situations.
** Steve would like me to point out that this is for anyone who would think that having a Gun would magically fix a situation and is not specifically directed toward him **
So far no one has given me an example of needing to shoot someone in a difficult situation, even Excalibur's Mall story doesn't say a gun shot was fired. It's just an interesting talking point Steve, not something I'm preaching.
I would rather people like Excalibur HAVE weapons because clearly he know what the fuck is going on and is aware enough not to shoot anyone that walks wrong way.
90% of Americans want expanded background checks on guns I'm included in that statistic and realistically who wouldn't be?
Chaos = No Control
No one here as stated a reason for logically needing a real gun in these situations.
So far your hypothetical situations are no different then mine.
When chaos brakes anything can happend. In Brades' chaotic situation you still have no control, and you're at the mercy of other idiots with guns not knowing who is who. Holding a gun makes you FEEL like you're in control but reality is a fickle beast. What if the shooter convinces someone else holding you're the bad guy?
In truth there are too many *what if* statements I can make, and you'll just rebut with your perfectly hypothetical situation of being the hero.
Which comes back to my point above, this becomes your perfect hypothetical hero situations vs. my chaotic hypothetical situations.
** Steve would like me to point out that this is for anyone who would think that having a Gun would magically fix a situation and is not specifically directed toward him **
So far no one has given me an example of needing to shoot someone in a difficult situation, even Excalibur's Mall story doesn't say a gun shot was fired. It's just an interesting talking point Steve, not something I'm preaching.
I would rather people like Excalibur HAVE weapons because clearly he know what the fuck is going on and is aware enough not to shoot anyone that walks wrong way.
90% of Americans want expanded background checks on guns I'm included in that statistic and realistically who wouldn't be?