iCe
TD Admin
Look at these pieces of shit.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...rld-trade-center-cross-at-memorial/?hpt=hp_t3
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...rld-trade-center-cross-at-memorial/?hpt=hp_t3
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Be good to each other.
This is why there is Hate.
- Thread starter iCe
- Start date
DyNe
A Little Darkly
^It is. And statistically 75 percent of Americans are Christian. I'm also half American (don't tell anyone lol).
But playing devil's advocate for a second I do agree with some aspects of this. Like even though I don't practice, my family is Jewish and to be represented by a cross would not be what my family members would want if it was them. I think that they should either encorporate to include everyone or make a multi purpose memorial. Because that really is just pigeon holing everyone into saying they're all Christian lol...Doesn't that seem wrong to you in a sense?
Oh but to add, I feel the way the "atheist group" is going about doing it, especially on September 11th just so they become news is disgusting...
But playing devil's advocate for a second I do agree with some aspects of this. Like even though I don't practice, my family is Jewish and to be represented by a cross would not be what my family members would want if it was them. I think that they should either encorporate to include everyone or make a multi purpose memorial. Because that really is just pigeon holing everyone into saying they're all Christian lol...Doesn't that seem wrong to you in a sense?
Oh but to add, I feel the way the "atheist group" is going about doing it, especially on September 11th just so they become news is disgusting...
iCe
TD Admin
1. This is a respectful forum/discussion area.
2. They can build a tree there if thats what will symbolize them better, do not protest the fact that probably 75 percent of the people working/died there were catholic/christian. No one is saying they cannot build the star of david (Jews) or whatever atheist worship.
DyNe
A Little Darkly
I don't think I was being disrespectful? If I was I apologize? But I was just stating my stand and the American comment was just me being funny, why would I make fun of my origins lol. I have a University Degree in Politics and I used to make these kind of jokes all the time in class.... Anyways my bad!
Secondly:
My point is that, if you read the article they discuss the fact that they said they're trying to represent that 9/11 was an attack on Christianity which is wrong. Secondly, no matter what, a Cross stands for one thing. 75 percent of the United States is in fact Christian but when the American Constitution was created Mr. Franklin made a clear point to make a seperation of Church and state. And a cross is a religious symbol, it doesn't represent America. So, unless they encorporate everyone, multiple people died there, and not all of them were Christian... so that should not be a representative symbol. Why can't it just be an American Flag?
Again, sorry if I was disrepsectful. Just statings my opinion :)
Secondly:
My point is that, if you read the article they discuss the fact that they said they're trying to represent that 9/11 was an attack on Christianity which is wrong. Secondly, no matter what, a Cross stands for one thing. 75 percent of the United States is in fact Christian but when the American Constitution was created Mr. Franklin made a clear point to make a seperation of Church and state. And a cross is a religious symbol, it doesn't represent America. So, unless they encorporate everyone, multiple people died there, and not all of them were Christian... so that should not be a representative symbol. Why can't it just be an American Flag?
Again, sorry if I was disrepsectful. Just statings my opinion :)
iCe
TD Admin
I live in NYC and have been down there multiple times. This "cross" was a symbol of hope for the people working down there cleaning, and the families that lost loved ones. Its in the museum its not like its in the center of the memorial as the symbol for what happened.
DyNe
A Little Darkly
I'm not disagreeing with you. But it is still part of the memorial. And like I said, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
If they had a Star of David or a Star and Crescent, people would lose their shit lol. I just find it funny that in a museum that is supposed to represent those that have fallen in 9/11, they use a cross. And for the record it only brings hope to 75 percent and segregates the rest.
You understand why that is ironic right?
Personally, I think its great and I think that the other relgions should do something to respect those that have fallen from their beliefs as well but I see where the other side is coming from.
If they had a Star of David or a Star and Crescent, people would lose their shit lol. I just find it funny that in a museum that is supposed to represent those that have fallen in 9/11, they use a cross. And for the record it only brings hope to 75 percent and segregates the rest.
You understand why that is ironic right?
Personally, I think its great and I think that the other relgions should do something to respect those that have fallen from their beliefs as well but I see where the other side is coming from.
DatGuy
TD Member
only after 1956, when that was added. In the original constitution there is no mention of a single "deity", rather the mention for freedom of religion(any) and freedom from religion.
DyNe
A Little Darkly
"It is important that it not be displayed to the exclusion of everyone else," said David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, which first filed suit in July 2011. "This case is about inclusion, it is not about the elimination of religion, it is about the inclusion of everyone."
^agree.... However
"A national group called American Atheists is suing the museum to stop the display of the cross, arguing that a religious symbol has no place in a memorial that’s backed by public funds "
^Completely contradicting lol.
^agree.... However
"A national group called American Atheists is suing the museum to stop the display of the cross, arguing that a religious symbol has no place in a memorial that’s backed by public funds "
^Completely contradicting lol.
Fork Included
TD Admin
"No one is saying they cannot build the star of david (Jews) or whatever atheist worship."
i've always wanted to know what atheists worship...
i've always wanted to know what atheists worship...
DatGuy
TD Member
DyNe
A Little Darkly
Its a museum thats part of the memorial. Thats why its so touchy! And ya, what exactly do Atheists worship lol. Its funny because their arguement for inclusion is to use exclusion of the cross lolllll.
But on that subject you're right. Because the cross was there before anything happened. Thats a very valid point. But it still a problem because of what it represents. A Cross no matter what has one representation. If you were to say to Christians that their cross isn't meant to be religious but to represent history it would be offensive and counter arguementative to the religion =P. Sorry for being so touchy just discussing this topic to the fullest.
But on that subject you're right. Because the cross was there before anything happened. Thats a very valid point. But it still a problem because of what it represents. A Cross no matter what has one representation. If you were to say to Christians that their cross isn't meant to be religious but to represent history it would be offensive and counter arguementative to the religion =P. Sorry for being so touchy just discussing this topic to the fullest.
iCe
TD Admin
Only certain people here limit our freedom of discussion.
You have been a good bro on keeping the discussion going and clean.
Hyena
I'm New Here
I don't consider myself a religious person at all, might even call myself an athetist, but I don't agree with what this group is trying to do at all. It really comes down to nothing more than politics and posturing by this group trying to have their voice heard. And as Dyne pointed out with those quotes, being inclusive by being completely exclusive is not the right way to go. The people who were lost in 9/11 should not be segregated by what they beleived in (or don't believe in). People are people regardless of religion, and a lot of people died that day. Thats what needs to be remembered.
I agree with this atheist group's idea that the museum needs to be inclusive of all, but it needs to be more than "And this is the Christian section of the museum, and this is the Jewish section, etc". Why can't it just be a way to remember everyone, regardless of what they beleived in.
CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???
I agree with this atheist group's idea that the museum needs to be inclusive of all, but it needs to be more than "And this is the Christian section of the museum, and this is the Jewish section, etc". Why can't it just be a way to remember everyone, regardless of what they beleived in.
CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???
Fork Included
TD Admin
trick question, atheists don't worship.
Like asking "what do rocks eat?"
I was simply poking at iCe's logic.
DatGuy
TD Member
you dare not worship the mighty Nothing?!!?
Nothing with have its vengeance on you and you will spend the afterlife in the depths of Nowhere...REPENT!