Random Computer Shit

[zackychuu]

With Black Friday just around the corner...I'm in need of some advice.

Yes, yes. Another tech advice thread: Sigh.
I've been thinking about upgrading my graphics card for a while, and I've also been considering swapping out/upgrading my RAM sticks.

Current specs are as follows:
GPU: Radeon HD 6770 - Just a basic card and fan deal, no massive heatsink or anything
CPU: Phenom II x4 965 @3.4 Ghz
Mobo: BIOSTAR TA790GXB3
RAM: 8.00 GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 666MHz (9-9-9-24) - Cheap sticks that I got from a website, just basic stuff
HDD: 1TB Western Digital WDC WD10EADS-00M2B0 ATA Device
PSU: OCZ Modxstream pro 700w
Running Windows 7 Professional 64bit

What cards would you guys suggest? I'm willing to look at all prices but would prefer if you suggested a few in different price ranges or something for me to pick from.
I'm not short on cash but I don't exactly want to be blowing £700 on a Graphics card or something silly.


Also, the RAM isn't something I'm overly fussed about, but do you guys think I would benefit from getting some higher end RAM rather than the basic cheapo sticks that I already have?
If so what Brands etc should I be looking at trying to snag on Black Friday?



I will be taking these suggestions through to Boxing Day/Cyber Monday if I miss what I want to buy on Black Friday too, just need some ideas for what to look out for.

 

[Thanatos]

Do you have any more detail about your RAM? 8gb total should be more than enough but do you know which of the Dual-Channel DDR3 -1600(OC)/1333/1066/800 that your motherboard supports that you have installed?

 

[zackychuu]

Do you have any more detail about your RAM? 8gb total should be more than enough but do you know which of the Dual-Channel DDR3 -1600(OC)/1333/1066/800 that your motherboard supports that you have installed?

Yeah, I updated the OP with whatever Speccy gave me for my RAM details.

"8.00 GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 666MHz (9-9-9-24)"
Like I said, just cheapo sticks I got while I was building on a small budget.

 

[Thanatos]

Ok, so the 8gb is great, like I said more than enough but the 666MHz is killer slow and below your basic system requirements actually. I'd be on the lookout for 1333MHz, keeping the same (9-9-9-24). I wouldn't really consider the 1066 unless it's a great deal and 800 won't be worth it unless it's basically free.

 

[zackychuu]

Do brands matter at all? Should I be looking for a specific make or just look for anything thats 1333MHz and a good deal?

What about heat sinks and all that stuff?
Then again with my Mobos dual channels being right next to each other I don't have a lot of room for heat sinks on my RAM.

 

[Steve]

Do brands matter at all? Should I be looking for a specific make or just look for anything thats 1333MHz and a good deal?

What about heat sinks and all that stuff?
Then again with my Mobos dual channels being right next to each other I don't have a lot of room for heat sinks on my RAM.

That memory is a doozy 8gb is plenty for usage, although your ddr3 memory is pretty shitty. But im not sure it is worth it to upgrade that(yet?).. ideally you want 1066 or 1333 for DDR3. But really i don't believe you would see a performance upgrade from this purchase.. so fuck it?

I would suggest getting a new video card, and coasting on the rest of the system until you decide to upgrade mobo/cpu . If your board/chassis don't have room for heatsinks and RAM heatsinks its not worth dumping money into the set up IMO.


The biggest upgrade you can do for your current system is to get a SSD and put your OS on it.
SAMSUNG 840 EVO MZ-7TE500BW 2.5" 500GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147249&ignorebbr=1


also for people willing to drop it on a ssd...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147251&ignorebbr=1

:FAP:

 

[zackychuu]

Hmm, I'll hold out on my RAM spend until I see a really decent deal then.
Not gonna pay top price for a minimal performance upgrade.

I would suggest getting a new video card, and coasting on the rest of the system until you decide to upgrade mobo/cpu . If your board/chassis don't have room for heatsinks and RAM heatsinks its not worth dumping money into the set up IMO.

What cards should I be looking at?



I've always looked at an SSD but I was always worried about fucking up the transfer from my current drive.

 

[zackychuu]

I've just seen this deal on PC World: http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/pc-ac...kave-xtd-2-0-gaming-headset-10024893-pdt.html

Might make you queue to get on the website so...
Roccat Kave XTD 2.0 down from £79.99 to £49.99
Anyone had any experience with this Headset or know if it's worth the £30 save?

Reviews on this website seem to be pretty decent?: http://www.engadget.com/products/roccat/kave/

 

[MetalLobster]

Do you have your eyes on a specific GPU? I'm asking, because I see a potential bottleneck between the GPU and your current CPU.

Have you thought about upgrading the motherboard to an AM3+ MB? You haven't mentioned your CPU, so I'm going to assume you want to keep it, but upgrading your MB to one with AM3+ support opens the opportunity to upgrading to an FX-6xxx, FX-8xxx and FX-9xxx CPU's in the future. While the FX series are not the best performing CPU's (that title goes to the Intel i7 series), they are a great value for any user and are always on sale. All AM3+ MB support your AM3 Phenom II X4. Note, this is more of a "long-term" performance upgrade, as you won't notice great increases right away, but as average game and program requirements creep higher, you'll appreciate have a hexa/octa-core CPU over your current X4. If you want immediate enhancements, go for an SSD and put your OS on it.

Also, the price of RAM at the moment is cray cray, so if you do choose to replace your 8GB kit with a faster one, it would be the least efficient upgrade you can make.

 

[zackychuu]

I'm not really up-to-date with the latest hardware at the minute. Was just hoping for some product names to look out for kind of thing.
Meaning what GPU would you probably go for in my situation.

I was thinking about motherboard upgrades the other day too, but that will have to be in a few paychecks time. Right now I'm just looking to upgrade my GPU, worry about the other stuff later.
I don't mind bottlenecking, because I know I'll have that room for improvement when I look into upgrading other parts.

 

[Glocky]

666 @ DDR = 1333 (hint the DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution but Double Data Rate)
DDR3 never came slower than DDR2 so this is 1333CL9

That said, for gaming faster RAM is only beneficial when the following 4 (four) conditions are met:
- CPU demanding, multi-player, latency is equivalent or better (not CAS latency, true latency) & not cpu/gpu bottlenecked

And it generally helps minimum framerates instead of maximum framerates.

TL;DR spend the money on your GPU if you're not achieving a steady 60+ FPS on a 60HZ monitor (or 120+FPS on a 120HZ monitor / 144+FPS on a 144HZ monitor)

You hurt my one last feeling when you don't look at my sticky for PC parts etc.....

Your CPU is Tom's 3rd tier... which means you'll notice minimal or no difference to a CPU upgrade for single GPU gaming. No bottlenecks for any PCI-e 2.0 to 3.0 cards unless your mobo can't handle it, I haven't bothered to look because you haven't looked at the stickied thread.

 

[$alvador]

I'm in the anti-GPU camp because I know for a fact that you would benefit more from 1600MHz RAM + an SSD.

an SSD will boost your loading times across the board. Increasing RAM throughput will similarly boost speed across the board, because every time you run anything it starts and ends with threads running on the CPU, which relies on having timely RAM access to store temporary data in. Yes, that includes 3D applications. Everything relies on CPU and RAM, including how fast the GPU can get frame data to process and display. Do you think it makes sense to double the potential of your GPU if the amount of data flowing into it hasn't increased? No.

As a fellow Phenom II user with a very similarly spec'd GPU, I can say with certainty that if you have any FPS issues it's not your GPU that is the bottleneck, it's the rest of your system. I think it would be nuts to trade up to a new GPU when you aren't even unlocking the full potential of the one you already have.

I missed MetalLobster's response on first read-through but yes AM3+ board will let you bump the CPU-NB speed higher than the AM3 board and will also come with other goodies. If you add high-spec RAM to an AM3+ board you will be able to unlock a fuckload more performance from your current CPU.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Beat me to it, 1333 RAM, don't touch it because it's a waste of your money. Put your money in your GPU for the most noticeable gains.

 

[zackychuu]

Sounds like I should be looking into a new Mobo as well then?

I saw on Amazon a Radeon R90x or something similar for ~£200
Not a black friday offer just a cheap deal on there.
Worth going for at that price?
As far as I see its tier 4 or so on Toms Hardware

Or should I just go for new Mobo+SSD?
A lot of mixed opinions

 

[$alvador]

I'll post again soon with some benchmarks to show you the differences between your current setup and what performance would look like using the same CPU with an AM3+ mobo and 1600MHz RAM.

 

[$alvador]

^ sorry about this i've been so busy lately, almost through my to-do list

 

[zackychuu]

^ sorry about this i've been so busy lately, almost through my to-do list

It's completely fine, take as long as you need. Looks like I'll be waiting for the Boxing Day/January sales for this stuff anyway so there's no mad rush.

 

[DatGuy]

I went to Canada Computers and picked up this bad boy.
24" BenQ gaming monitor. 144hz

 

[$alvador]

Ok so here are some numbers. First of all, I'll be using MaxxMem to get raw throughput numbers and Super Pi to show how it RAM performance affects something as basic as raw number crunching. Note that it's running multi-threaded to better reflect real-application performance.

This is a run on my base setup, note that NB speed is at 3GHz and RAM speed is 1600MHz

Now for a run where NB speed gets busted down to 2GHz but RAM speed stays at 1600MHz

Now for the final run I've left NB speed at 2GHz and dropped RAM speed to 1333MHz

I focus on NB speed because it's an important number. As you can see between the first and second set of benchmarks, it has a larger overall effect on how fast the CPU can perform than the difference between RAM speeds seen in the 2nd to 3rd set. This is essentially free performance that is on the table, you can unlock it with very basic overclocking and usually don't even need to add extra cooling to run it reliably. The problem is AM3 boards cap out at a lower maximum (2.6-2.8 GHz), so aside from the peripheral features being able to run 3-3.2GHz NB is where you really find the money's worth in upgrading to an AM3+ board.

As for the RAM speed, well, even at 2GHz NB you can see there's almost a half second difference between how 1333MHz and 1600MHz performs. The MaxxMem numbers are a better reflection of the disparity between the different specs. The Pi numbers are less obviously disparate but I threw it in there to show you how much RAM performance affects CPU performance. Shit slows down by over a second! In computer time, that's equivalent to 1,162,000,000 seconds of lag (because CPU time is in nanoseconds and that's what 1.162s is in ns). And this is for a simple number-crunching application. Try to imagine how big the difference is when you launch a game and start running thousands of lines of code and have to wait every few lines for new numbers to crunch. It's a lot.

Anyway, there you have it. Upgrading the GPU will speed up processing of graphics data that's sent to the GPU but all games and all applications rely on CPU performance so it just doesn't make much sense to upgrade a GPU ahead of the CPU/RAM

 

[zackychuu]

Hmm, really interesting stuff. So what was it you were saying, upgrade the Motherboard and RAM? or Mobo + CPU + RAM?
or should I just skate along on my current build for a while longer and just go for a complete new build when the time is right? Obviously while salvaging parts like my PSU.

Honestly my PC takes quite a while to boot up and load everything, which is my main gripe with it.
So maybe I should just look into a new build with an SSD and re-use my current HDD for storage, and my current PSU and stuff?