[ATTN] Advertising on TF2Spreadsheet... with conditions.

shoottomaim

BANNED
Hey guys.

The TF2Spreadsheet (located here) is a site where thousands of users check prices daily to see if their trade is worthwhile. It's a site where prices are updated on the hour, and where prices are accurate.

I managed to get in touch with the TF2Spreadsheet Admin, and he's willing to advertise DARKLY on the spreadsheet (right below it), but with some conditions.

His accounts (alternates and main) were banned by someone because of the Reddit case, where a Reddit user accused the Admin of scamming, and price duping (see more here and here). Personally, I think that it was a poorly supported accusation on the Reddit user's part. The trades that he represented had no proof of the spreadsheets' prices at the time, and were therefore inaccurate and irrelevant. The TF2Spreadsheet Admin has since stopped trading. The first condition is that his accounts get unbanned.

A second, and last condition is that we use tf2spreadsheet.blogspot.ca instead of backpack.tf's.
I think we should do this. Let me provide you with some information before you start raging at me.
backpack.tf is a site where the users do the voting. They vote prices up, and they vote prices down. If the users' vote, then obviously they can increase a price slowly, but surely. Take the Bill's Hat for example. On bp.tf, it's worth 8 keys for a normal/unique one. On the TF2Spreadsheet, its' worth 8-9.5 keys.
The Bill's Hat's has been going down, but not as frequently as bp.tf states. TF2Spreadsheet provides a range, so users can estimate a fair price by themselves, and not just go by some other users' price on bp.tf.
The TF2Spreadsheet gets its prices by going on different trading sites (TF2OP, TF2TP, etc.) and gathering data from there. In the past, we used this spreadsheet, although because of its formatting, it was removed and replaced with bp.tf.
TF2Speadsheet is about to get an upgrade soon. Its formatting will be replaced with a more user-friendly interface, and prices will be updated more frequently, just to name a few points.
If you think about it, its completely fair that the Admin requested that we use his spreadsheet. If we want to advertise on someone's website, they should also get something in return.

Right now, the spreadsheet is advertising the "Night Clan Community". It's website isn't the best, and ours surpass theirs by far. Even though their website isn't the best, they've gained tons of users ever since they've advertised on the spreadsheet. It's worthwhile to do this.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
jakksilves
zackychuu
Low Budget
Brades
Regal Waffle
(Tagged you guys because you guys are the main TF2 admins).
Starman4xz
(Tagged you because you were the guy who made the plugin).

tl;dr
We can advertise on the TF2Spreadsheet, a site where thousands of users get their prices, if 2 simple conditions are met. Maybe we should do this?
 

zackychuu

TD Admin / Wanker
You never actually stated a first condition. You just told us that some of his accounts were banned and he quit trading.
Anyway...

So options as follows...carry on using backpack.tf, who have a very well made plugin, pricelist and backpack system already set up.

Or be seen as a community that supports spreadsheet.
Something that already half of the TF2 community do not like.
And wait, hope and pray that when they 'upgrade' it, it can be to as high a standard as backpack.tf is.

I understand from a business point of view, getting advertisement from a source that is widely used would be very good for Darkly.
But, the majority of the TF2 community oppose tf2spreadsheet, whereas only a minor amount of people oppose backpack.tf.
Surely affiliating with tf2spreadsheet would give a possibility of losing some of our player base, and a lot of people seem to like the plugin we already use.
Even before we added it I saw people using the /pc command.
 

shoottomaim

BANNED
You never actually stated a first condition. You just told us that some of his accounts were banned and he quit trading.
Anyway...
Fixed.
Something that already half of the TF2 community do not like.
:fuuu:
Surely affiliating with tf2spreadsheet would give a possibility of losing some of our player base, and a lot of people seem to like the plugin we already use.
Even before we added it I saw people using the /pc command.
:ok:
 

Gatherix

Death by Darkly
I'll agree that Backpack.tf isn't incredibly accurate and has attributed to a recent price flux (for the worst, mostly), but Spreadsheet isn't much better, for all the reasons that Backpack.tf was designed to avoid, being that it's run and maintained by a small group of individuals.

This free advertising would be great, but by stamping Darkly's name onto the Spreadsheet website, even though it's Spreadsheet endorsing Darkly, it also functions the other way; Darkly would be officially endorsing Spreadsheet too. Whether that's good or bad is up to discussion, but it's not something that can be overlooked. There's been a lot of distaste for Spreadsheet ever since Backpack.tf became dominant, and I'm not sure that affiliation between Darkly and Spreadsheet is necessarily a good thing. While I think that the people who have forged a violent anger at the Spreadsheet admin following the scandal that occurred are wearing their arses on their heads, there are still plenty of them out there (and many who are now weary of Spreadsheet and its admin), and an official affiliation with said admin may not be the most constructive or beneficial.

On the note of the advertising - when I just went and looked at Spreadsheet, I completely missed the link for the Night Clan Community, not to mention it links to a post on Spreadsheet, not the site directly. A direct banner would be nicer.

I'm confused by the first condition. Are you suggesting lifting his SteamRep mark? It's not clear.

Right now, the spreadsheet is advertising the "Night Clan Community". It's website isn't the best, and ours surpass theirs by far. Even though their website isn't the best, they've gained tons of users ever since they've advertised on the spreadsheet. It's worthwhile to do this.

Darkly's website looks nicer, but we don't really have anywhere to direct traffic, mainly traders who are coming from a pricing guide - the home page has little new content (which is also poor for Search Engine Optimization) and barely any trading on the forum (which most of this new traffic most likely won't want to visit anyway). It would bring some new traffic to the servers, sure, but building dedicated members who come back for something (quality of servers, free shtuffs, regular events/activities, etc.) is also important. Methinks we need some videos.
 

Discodude

TF2 Admin
Hi there Shoot. ;)

Anyways, I would agree with Zacky's (EDIT: And Gatherix' as he beat me to responding) above post. Until their reputation is restored and it gains a significant base again, it would be a bad idea to go with that. backpack.tf is trusted, which makes it far more useful to use. Darkly wouldn't want to be affiliated with something that a large portion of TF2 traders hate at the moment.
 

shoottomaim

BANNED
This free advertising would be great, but by stamping Darkly's name onto the Spreadsheet website, even though it's Spreadsheet endorsing Darkly, it also functions the other way; Darkly would be officially endorsing Spreadsheet too. Whether that's good or bad is up to discussion, but it's not something that can be overlooked. There's been a lot of distaste for Spreadsheet ever since Backpack.tf became dominant, and I'm not sure that affiliation between Darkly and Spreadsheet is necessarily a good thing. While I think that the people who have forged a violent anger at the Spreadsheet admin following the scandal that occurred are wearing their arses on their heads, there are still plenty of them out there (and many who are now weary of Spreadsheet and its admin), and an official affiliation with said admin may not be the most constructive or beneficial.
:ok:
On the note of the advertising - when I just went and looked at Spreadsheet, I completely missed the link for the Night Clan Community, not to mention it links to a post on Spreadsheet, not the site directly. A direct banner would be nicer.
I'll suggest it.
I'm confused by the first condition. Are you suggesting lifting his SteamRep mark? It's not clear.
I'm suggesting that we remove his ban on DARKLY.
I'm not sure if he's marked a scammer though.. is he?
Methinks we need some videos.
:fap:
 

shoottomaim

BANNED
Hi there Shoot. ;)

Anyways, I would agree with Zacky's (EDIT: And Gatherix' as he beat me to responding) above post. Until their reputation is restored and it gains a significant base again, it would be a bad idea to go with that. backpack.tf is trusted, which makes it far more useful to use. Darkly wouldn't want to be affiliated with something that a large portion of TF2 traders hate at the moment.

:feelscry:
B-b-b-but they have giveaways :o.
I even sponsored one :).
 

zackychuu

TD Admin / Wanker
So, now that the first condition has been clarified, I can respond.
As he is marked as a scammer via SteamRep, there is nothing we can do.
Short of disabling our SteamRep plugin, and we don't want that at all.

The only way he will ever be able to play on Darkly is if Reddit lifts his Scammer tag.
Seeing as that is not likely to happen, the first condition is next to impossible to deliver on our end.
 

shoottomaim

BANNED
So, now that the first condition has been clarified, I can respond.
As he is marked as a scammer via SteamRep, there is nothing we can do.
Short of disabling our SteamRep plugin, and we don't want that at all.

The only way he will ever be able to play on Darkly is if Reddit lifts his Scammer tag.
Seeing as that is not likely to happen, the first condition is next to impossible to deliver on our end.
Oki doke.

Talked with the admin again, he said that since the first condition can't be met, he's still willing to put up a direct link to darklygaming.com if the second condition can be met.

Thoughts?
 

zackychuu

TD Admin / Wanker
Personally, I would be able to have a fair say ones I see this 'new and improved' spreadsheet + plugin to boot.

Also, as Gatherix said, the reputation of spreadsheet isn't exactly hugely reputable at the moment, I can't help but have this nagging feeling that affiliating with them would drag Darkly's name down somewhat.
 

Gatherix

Death by Darkly
Personally, I would be able to have a fair say ones I see this 'new and improved' spreadsheet + plugin to boot.

Also, as Gatherix said, the reputation of spreadsheet isn't exactly hugely reputable at the moment, I can't help but have this nagging feeling that affiliating with them would drag Darkly's name down somewhat.

Agreed. Wait until this supposed improved site releases, then we can make a more informed and concrete decision.
 

cj4981

DARKLY Regular
Just saying on your example about the bill's, a non painted bill is traded at 8 keys usually. The reason spreadsheet has it 8-9.5 because it includes when it is painted. Im obviously not an admin so i have no say in what happens. However, tf2 trading is run by the community itself, so if bp.tf is trying to use community price voting which has so far been the best idea shown by the popularity it has gotten. They also use outpost trades to help back up the votes. No trading pricelist will ever be perfect so obviously each one will have its likes and dislikes. Lastly, even if his mark was not fully justified, it would look kind of bad for darkly to be associated with someone marked :(
 
I've already posted my thoughts on it sometime ago, so to thumb it down...

The Reddit Scam tag for him are not valid in my eyes. It looks like a heavy sharking operation went one for sometime, however the trader isn't quite to blame, per the Sheet, and any Item Price Guide, is just that, a Guide. If we're going to mark people for being dishonest, let's start marking the MetaCritics for making fraudulent rankings on many of today's games. Example: http://www.darklygaming.com/forum/threads/critics.8411/ Hell, let me go a step further and let's mark nearly all of GoV's admins for sharking people out of their goods.

I still use the Spreadsheet to trade away items I find in drops that I have no need, or items that are sent to my by other users in an attempt to free their backpack space.

Anywho, the bottom line is...

1.) We as a community, cannot unban someone who's marked as a Scammer, just because he makes the request or a quid pro quo. While I don't agree with his marking, Reddit owns his ban and tag. There is an active investigation on this, (Or used to be, I'm not sure what the status is of it now) which can be found here. http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/...a001-and-76561198037908684-stf2-updated.9825/ The discussion, which was closed by DataStorm, can be found here. http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/tf2-spreadsheet-scandal.9913/ Perhaps asking for an update would be in the works?

2.) That's a decision that Shotgun Jesus or Brades can make, I already voiced my opinion on using Backpack.tf, but was out voted? Regardless, if they wish to make a change, it's up to them.

shoottomaim When did we make you Ambassador/Derp of DGN again? :uh:
 

Fiend

Senior TF2 Admin
The accuracy of the spreadsheet is always in question is it is controlled by a small group of people that get to decide the price. Backpack.tf has voting from the community on what they've been able to sell the item for and normally requires proof before considered "approved." I would agree with previous posts in this thread and caution Darkly to associate with the spreadsheet at all until the Admin can resolve his REDDIT issues and the spreadsheet itself can re-establish it's image.

I would have to vote no, as well, until we can see these things occur on his side.
 
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