MAP ROTATION YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[OG buckshot jr]

Won't be necessary. You can add me regardless, "TD|buckshotjr". Net Graph pertains to connections, not map/rendering/whatever you want to call it performance. I'll be able to tell what, I would just like to know where, exactly.

 

[everyth1ng]

Won't be necessary. You can add me regardless, "TD|buckshotjr". Net Graph pertains to connections, not map/rendering/whatever you want to call it performance. I'll be able to tell what, I would just like to know where, exactly.

Net_graph includes frame rate, though, and having screenshots would allow you to easily replicate where I'm standing and what I'm looking at. It's up to you how you want to do this, though. I'm fine either way.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Net_graph includes frame rate, though, and having screenshots would allow you to easily replicate where I'm standing and what I'm looking at. It's up to you how you want to do this, though. I'm fine either way.

It's going to be much easier for you to just run through it and post here:

As an example
FPS Drops:
- mid-A staircase
- Upper B window overlooking site
- A courtyard

etc.

 

[everyth1ng]

It's going to be much easier for you to just run through it and post here:

As an example
FPS Drops:
- mid-A staircase
- Upper B window overlooking site
- A courtyard

etc.

Okay, so I did a quick tour of the map. I've taken some screenshots, and they're set to public on my profile. I should mention that I only took a screenshot if my frame rate dipped below 150, as most of the time my frame rate was above 180 (and often 300 and above, as my frame rate is capped at 1000).

FPS drops (offline with bots):
- Street level, outside, adjacent to B, coming from T spawn, to the side of the red vehicle, looking towards entrances to B/mid.
- T spawn, in the parking lot, just down from the ramp where Ts spawn, looking toward the main building across the street
- From T spawn, to the left when faced toward the main building, just outside of the parking lot at the left exit.
- Upper B, near the window overlooking B, looking at the bookshelf.
- Sitting in the window that overlooks B, looking at entrance to B from mid.
- Adjacent to A, on the upper level near T spawn overlooking the courtyard outside of A, facing toward the tables on the upper level.
- A site, up the stairs, overlooking the site.

And before I see anyone harp at me about complaining about 130FPS, keep in mind that I'm comparing my minimum frame rate (129 iirc) to my average frame rate (around 200). With 31 other players, my frame rate will often dip to 80-100, and I have a fairly decent rig. I'm sure that it's much worse for many other people playing this map.

 

[shoottomaim]

oh man try playing nightfever w/ a broken radar and no headset.
-80000 points for tk'ing rofl

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Excellent, Cold, thank you very much. This is exactly what I need. I'll have a look at it this weekend and see what I can do.

 

[Demaio]

I notice the stutter issues anywhere you can see the background of the map.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

I notice the stutter issues anywhere you can see the background of the map.

This is good to note as well, thank you for the feedback!

 

[everyth1ng]

Perhaps the problem is that too much of the map is being drawn in the areas that I mentioned for whatever reason. I'm very interested to see what you can do to optimize the map.

EDIT: Come to think of it, though, Source doesn't really use streaming tech, iirc. All of the level is loaded at once, which is why levels using the Source engine are typically small.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Come to think of it, though, Source doesn't really use streaming tech, iirc. All of the level is loaded at once, which is why levels using the Source engine are typically small.

Although this is true, to some extent, it is also false. As map authors, we can use certain tools to 'compartmentalize' sections of the map that are visible at any one time. For example, if you're in a room, and there's objects in the adjacent room that are not in your line of sight, they will still render by default (IFF the wall seperating the two rooms is not complete from floor to ceiling and from wall to wall). Thus, we are responsible to ensure that situations like these are treated well by the game's engine. This is the [very basic] theory of optimization for the game's engine.

 

[everyth1ng]

Although this is true, to some extent, it is also false. As map authors, we can use certain tools to 'compartmentalize' sections of the map that are visible at any one time. For example, if you're in a room, and there's objects in the adjacent room that are not in your line of sight, they will still render by default (IFF the wall seperating the two rooms is not complete from floor to ceiling and from wall to wall). Thus, we are responsible to ensure that situations like these are treated well by the game's engine. This is the [very basic] theory of optimization for the game's engine.

This is exactly what I was wondering about. Thanks for clarifying this. I'm very interested in getting into mapping, but I just haven't prioritized learning about it. So for lack of a better word, there are 'leaks' in certain parts of the map that are causing too much to be rendered at once. In some areas, it's intentional for stuff to be rendered, but in other areas, it's not.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

So for lack of a better word, there are "leaks" in certain parts of the map that are causing too much to be rendered at once...

In effect, yes. It is our job to 'contain' areas of visibility (and there's even ways to contain areas of mass visiblity; i.e.: de_port) to maintain smooth gameplay and limit load on people's machines. This does wonders for shooting registry as well, as there's far less to compute, and in return, far less information to send/receive by the servers/clients. The chain effect of your work is really cool to see.

 

[everyth1ng]

In effect, yes. It is our job to 'contain' areas of visibility (and there's even ways to contain areas of mass visiblity; i.e.: de_port) to maintain smooth gameplay and limit load on people's machines. This does wonders for shooting registry as well, as there's far less to compute, and in return, far less information to send/receive by the servers/clients. The chain effect of your work is really cool to see.

Absolutely. I often see people leave the server when this map comes up, and I think that that sucks because this map deserves better. Ideally, I'd like to see it get a proper remake with a 3D background and so on, but optimizing the version that we have will have to do for now.

 

[Demaio]

This is exactly what I was wondering about. Thanks for clarifying this. I'm very interested in getting into mapping, but I just haven't prioritized learning about it. So for lack of a better word, there are 'leaks' in certain parts of the map that are causing too much to be rendered at once. In some areas, it's intentional for stuff to be rendered, but in other areas, it's not.

I've always considered CS (and its sequels/expansions) to be particularly difficult to create maps for. Look at the best maps and you'll notice that once you've learned them they come with a great deal of subtlety and all of which is impeccably balanced, both for 10 man and 40 man games.
As much as we hate on it Dust2 is easily one of the greatest feats of game design ever made and the sheer complexity of how far the B site is from each spawn boggles my mind. Double doors sniping is still stupid though.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

You've got to keep in mind that the official maps weren't designed with 32 players in mind. With that said, though, cs_office is just bad. I wouldn't miss it if it was taken out of rotation. However, I still love de_inferno. It's one of my favorite maps. Getting out of A apartments with 15 other players on your team can be a bitch, though.

I agree with all of the points that kts mentioned. I'd also like to see more new maps tested on the server. Perhaps when a few mods are on we could test out some new maps and check for feedback. Keystone and Agency look like really interesting maps, for example. I'd like to see how they play on TD.

Keystone: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=168693438
Agency: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=174668691

I really like the agency map [from screenshots, I did not test]. and keystone looks like it may have a nuke style potential of gameplay which can really easily be hit or miss for team balancing [hard to test with bots]. If we want to have some players test this map PM me and i'll get a lan/private match going to test balance.

Edit: Here is another really cool 32 player [16 vs 16] classic map called Depths. Please check it out, I'd really like to see this on the server.

Link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=174733350

 

[everyth1ng]

I really like the agency map [from screenshots, I did not test]. and keystone looks like it may have a nuke style potential of gameplay which can really easily be hit or miss for team balancing [hard to test with bots]. If we want to have some players test this map PM me and i'll get a lan/private match going to test balance.

Edit: Here is another really cool 32 player [16 vs 16] classic map called Depths. Please check it out, I'd really like to see this on the server.

Link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=174733350

I should mention that I do have a few concerns about Keystone.

I definitely think that we should try it out, but I'm concerned about how CTs are going take B site when Ts are holding it down. There are two ways to infiltrate the site, but one of them (the one closest to T spawn) is very convoluted. I could see a lot of time being wasted just trying to navigate that path into the site.

Another concern I have is that it takes a long time to rotate between A site and B site. Additionally, I don't think that there's enough cover in the CT spawn area to protect CTs when they're rotating from A to B.

The final issue that I have with the map is that there are a lot of dark corners, but this could be easily fixed in a future iteration of the map.

Let me know when you guys want to test out maps. I'd love to get involved.

 

[Demaio]

I'd be more than happy to help test any maps
http://steamcommunity.com/id/InaneFedaykin/
If you don't have me added

 

[Kanapka]

Maybe its just me but I wouldn't mind updated Aztec and maybe even Assault once in a while.

 

[STERLINGARCHER]

Maybe its just me but I wouldn't mind updated Aztec and maybe even Assault once in a while.

they do not play well with 32 players, none of the hostage maps do.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Maybe its just me but I wouldn't mind updated Aztec and maybe even Assault once in a while.

I assure you, it's just you.