UNBANNED Explanations

[PETER PAN]

Name When banned : Ace_^
Steam ID : STEAM_1:1:12125772
Game : CS GO
Server : Toronto Darkly CS GO
Ban Reason : Multi Hack

I was banned this afternoon from the server. I'm tired of repeating the same shit over over, that i don't hack and all. I think it's pointless now. I'm just asking for some explanations from the admin/admins who decided to ban me.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

I don't believe anyone who has been banned is entitled to see any proof as it will only make cheating here in the future easier (and yes, this has happened to TD in the past). We are not obligated to release any information on how we catch people.

Having said that, it's obvious there will never be a screenshot of Peter Pan's screen, showing 'hax'. That shit doesn't exist anymore. So for those of you who don't know as much as others, if you're expecting something like this, you won't get it.

 

[kel]

I just want to add my two cents. I don't know if anyone really gives a shit what I have to say on TD anymore, but I figured I should add my piece to the story. To clarify, I never played with Ace until recently or talked to him anywhere else besides in-game (until today, that is).

I specced him quite a bit over the last week and never saw anything that I thought was overly fishy. Whenever someone is playing "too good to be true," I spec them. I'll also watch people just to learn how to play maps better/aim better. I've done it with tytanium, ballonhands, walker, rex, grimesy etc., After playing CS:S, I'm still paranoid that everyone is walling :) I don't know how many people are still around from the Mahone days of TD, but anyone who was active then can probably attest to the number of players I demo'd and reported for walling in CS:S. If anyone remembers "3xtr3m3," I was one of the first to call him out before he got banned. I assume everyone is hacking until I feel confident enough to say they aren't.

What I look for when I spec people is the ability to always focus on the area other players are in, when people stop in their footsteps when they have no reason to (ie knowing someone is in a certain spot, so they uncharacteristically wait until the person pops out), their ability to aim through smoke/double doors, occasional slip-ups when they pre-fire, behavior in switching bombsites when it's 1v1/3v3, covering the flanks always at the right time, chasing someone who flanked that snuck by solidly, etc., I never consistently saw anything to make me move to step two and start demoing ace.

From my observations of Ace: he often missed players behind smoke, didn't check the odd corners and got wrecked, and often had people on his screen that he didn't instantly aim at. Regarding his playing style, I saw that he played very thorough and pretty much "knew" all the spots and checked them, even when people weren't there. He was very thorough, but too sloppy to be always walling. He turned back from danger, but also turned back from no danger (ie bombsite is open and clear, he turned around).

Regarding his aiming, I think it's on par with his playstyle. From my experience, wallers usually have bad aim, but somehow amazing "strategy/playstyle." They always check the right corners, rush at the right time, etc., But.. Ace had pretty damn good aim, some of the best aim I've seen. Unfortunately, I don't really know what CS:GO aimbots look like and I'm not the best shot in GO, so I can't really say that he wasn't aimbotting. But, I think his ability to shoot was on par with his other skills.. so I'm lead to believe that the guy might just be good.

I specced him probably ~2-3 hours over the last few weeks/in the past when I died. It's very possibly that I missed the signs and by no means can I say he's legit, but just based on what I saw I didn't see anything that made me think he was BS. I truly hope the evidence on his ban is good and that my observations are wrong, it's just a bad precedent to set when you start banning members of the community based on gut feeling. Truth be told, at one point I was convinced Copper was walling for a good 1-2 weeks.

Also from my observations: his KDR/score is good because he usually disconnected when he was on a losing team and only played roll-maps.

edit: (((((BTW A WILD KEL HAS APPEARED)))))

 

[everyth1ng]

Unbelievable. Guys, I've been playing with Ace several times a week for the past few months. He doesn't fucking hack. Obviously, I don't have any objective proof, but he's not hacking. If the decision to ban Ace came down to a mere vote between members in secret, I'm very disappointed.

 

[kel]

I concur with Rex. Unless it's pretty damn clear, I'm disappointed.

 

[BIOP]

I will try me best to explain why Peter got banned:
The reason is "multihack" but it's far more than that. When you ban someone, you have to pick a generic reason in the menu.
Over the past couple months, there have been several TD Admins, TD members, and TD regulars watching him play and think he toggles. There have been numerous specific examples over a long period of time about where he has "slipped up" and been caught toggling. Obviously this is not 100%, it can never be if someone toggles walls. But this is not the sole reason he was banned.
The straw that breaks the camels back is the WAY that Peter plays. He is constantly nominating CT sided maps to join and play CT, then quits when it's his turn to play T. When he does play T, he is a lone ranger. He will camp the flank every round while his team tries to do the objectives, just for him to come as the last T to clean up and get the points. He plays for himself, does nothing with the team. Other excellent players such as Tytanium, Flawless, Lacrimosa, Rex, Walker, etc, all at least play for the team and play in complete contrast to Peters style.

Regulars are starting to quit when he connects. TD members and regulars are refusing to play while Peter plays here. This is unacceptable.

No one is saying (or can say) that he 100% hacks. But TD has come to the decision that he does more harm than good to the server.

 

[PETER PAN]

There have been numerous specific examples over a long period of time about where he has "slipped up" and been caught toggling

I never hacked.

The straw that breaks the camels back is the WAY that Peter plays. He is constantly nominating CT sided maps to join and play CT, then quits when it's his turn to play T

I stopped doing that after an admin told me to stop doing it. I remember it was roach.
I don't leave because it's t side. I leave when i get fed up with getting owned, was it ct side or t side.

When he does play T, he is a lone ranger. He will camp the flank every round while his team tries to do the objectives, just for him to come as the last T to clean up and get the points. He plays for himself, does nothing with the team

It happened like 2 or 3 times. What do you expect me to do when all my team is camping t spawn ? I rush, kill 2 or 3, die, spec my team, they are still camping mid/t spawn. I always try to balance the teams,even if it means playing t side all the map.
When my team get wrecked because the other team is too stacked and 2-3 admins playing, i never complained.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

True, the ban reasons are limited so it may not always be the most accurate.

From what I've seen from Ace, and not just on TD - that's right, I've followed him around, and seen some of his ESEA matches:
- always knows where people are, where/when to rush, sit, turn around etc., but he's not stupid, he won't obviously wall people sitting behind boxes, he'll just play like he checks every corner, but he'll have your head lined up by the time he comes to your spot = this just did not happen, ever, on ESEA
- I've personally witnessed him trace heads through DD on D2. I had three times total, and after watching him for months, I regarded it as a slip-up. I was not on the server under my account
- I do not think he aimbots, ever. His aim is steller.
- I'm not so sure about wall-hack mostly because that will just never be proven (hence why some people here are disappointed - if you're expecting a screen-shot showing blinking red lights on peoples' heads, sorry to disappoint you, that won't happen), but I do believe a little help on the radar is going on. We caught someone doing this, and he admitted it - one of our members knew him in real life and the accused admitted it to him/her.
- I feel after watching hours upon hours that the things that don't seem blatent are the very things that are blatent (see point 1).
- I've had numerous people (not just admins/members) speak of very specific events/situations where Peter has done some blatent shit (keep in mind, blatent = noticeable when you're really watching)

And BIOP's points are correct. A few members, even some admins are beyond frustration and have refused to play because of it. We have some amazing players on the server, but no one who exhibits such occassionally obvious behaviour.

 

[BIOP]

It happened like 2 or 3 times. What do you expect me to do when all my team is camping t spawn ? I rush, kill 2 or 3, die, spec my team, they are still camping mid/t spawn. I always try to balance the teams,even if it means playing t side all the map.
When my team get wrecked because the other team is too stacked and 2-3 admins playing, i never complained.

This is semantics. I am not here to argue the semantics with you, only tell you the reasoning behind your ban.
I am being as straight up as I can about the conversations about you. It wasn't a "two or three" time thing. Like I said it has been months of different members and admins talking about specific situations like this.

 

[PETER PAN]

- always knows where people are, where/when to rush, sit, turn around etc., but he's not stupid, he won't obviously wall people sitting behind boxes, he'll just play like he checks every corner, but he'll have your head lined up by the time he comes to your spot

When it's the same spot he was in every round since the beginning of the map, i will pre-fire him of course. As i said it's a pub, you can learn the spots where people like to stand easily, then all you have to do is check it every round. Add to that your game sense: Checking radar, remembering where your team-mate died,etc.

In esea, its much harder. People are playing seriously there, they change their positioning, they don't run around like in a football field, etc. Of course i won't be able to do the same shit as in TD, it's a different pace of game.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

When it's the same spot he was in every round since the beginning of the map, i will pre-fire him of course. As i said it's a pub, you can learn the spots where people like to stand easily, then all you have to do is check it every round. Add to that your game sense: Checking radar, remembering where your team-mate died,etc.

In esea, its much harder. People are playing seriously there, they change their positioning, they don't run around like in a football field, etc. Of course i won't be able to do the same shit as in TD, it's a different pace of game.

I understand what you're saying, and you're correct. But, I'll give you an example that I so often see:

You hang back, watching nothing.. When the opposite team makes a move, you know where to go. You approach a corner, you already know if you're out-numbered, or when to rush exactly to catch a guy retreating, or when to rotate because you have a better chance. People have also really complained about your 'random' nades.

In ESEA, you don't have help, so yes, it will be harder. In a pub, I would think having 15 opponents rather than 5 would be harder to determine the perfect spots to pick, rush etc. Your decisions to walk, run happen in all of the wrong spots, when you watch demos of yourself.

 

[copper]

I personally advocated for banning Peter Pan because I firmly believe that he hacks. This is not an accusation I take lightly. I have been playing Counter Strike in one form or another for the past nine years. During that time I have been an admin and active player in two clans. Peter Pan is the first player against whom I have proactively taken steps to see that they are no longer allowed to play in a server. Since Peter's reemergence in the server I have spent several hours spectating him and have come to the conclusion that he consistently operates with more information than other players on the server. He plays inconsistently in similar situations, seemingly based on too much information. What do I mean by this? Peter is very good about checking corners when there is a present danger, but in a similar situation with no imminent threat he fails to do so and is never punished for it. He advances quickly and without penalty when there is a threat he can handle but will never, for example, emerge from an opening with enemies on both sides. He jumps out and prefires in odd situations at spots that are statistically significantly less likely to contain a threat than other places. He throws random grenades in the right directions at seemingly no one in particular. Now I understand: Obviously you could say these things about any player in some situations. Sometimes people just get lucky and some players definitely have better instincts than others. The problem is Peter always gets away with it in all situations and when he can't, he will not try. I can't remember seeing Peter on my monitor when he wasn't looking directly at me. The only way to beat him is to outshoot him because you cannot catch him off-guard. Don't misunderstand me; I have no problem playing with superior players and I don't believe Peter aimbots. Even with players who are better than me I sometimes catch them off-guard; I sometimes am able to pick them off opportunistically as they are fighting other teammates. This just doesn't happen with Peter because he doesn't engage a threat unless he can win, even when there is no reason he should know the scale and direction of the threat. Again, this isn't about Peter having good instincts or having him come up lucky somtimes; that happens for everyone. This is about consistency. Over and over and over I see the same things and it doesn't add up. It's not completely obvious until you watch his radar and watch how he adapts to the flow of players. With that in mind I have watched Peter and then I watched him some more. Always it's the same: Peter just knows. You can only beat him purely by having better aim, but you're damned sure going to be at a disadvantage every time you engage him because he has more information than you do. I would bet my Steam account that Peter Pan is radar hacking. Other players have expressed other grievances with his play style and I won't disagree that he is not a team player because he certainly only plays for himself. But for me I have spec'd Peter to death and have been convinced time and again that Peter Pan just has more information than you do.

 

[PETER PAN]

You hang back, watching nothing.. When the opposite team makes a move, you know where to go. You approach a corner, you already know if you're out-numbered, or when to rush exactly to catch a guy retreating, or when to rotate because you have a better chance. People have also really complained about your 'random' nades.

Like i said, it all comes down to game sense. If i see on my radar my team getting outnumbered somewhere, i will rush the other side. If you check radar, pay attention to the sound and think a bit, you will easily figure out the safest place to go.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Like i said, it all comes down to game sense. If i see on my radar my team getting outnumbered somewhere, i will rush the other side. If you check radar, pay attention to the sound and think a bit, you will easily figure out the safest place to go.

Thanks for the tips, I guess, but having played since Counter-strike first came out, I'm well aware. Again, I agree with what you're saying, but watching you and your radar (on the maps where a spectator does have a working radar), I don't see what you see - this is where you slip, in my opinion.

 

[Steve]

This is exactly how verGe`STRuK got banned back in the day, this is exactly how b0nk got banned for awhile, and this is exactly how TD|tytanium got banned for a while.

No proof, witch hunt, etc. A good player getting burned on the stake.

Makes us look pretty scrub to be honest. But then again this is just a pub.



But I've heard your quite the stacking cunt on top of being good Ace, so you can :RIP:

 

[PETER PAN]

Its the first time i hear about a " radar hack".
As i said, if you combine the information from the radar, the sound and your past rounds on the map, you can easily guess which spots can the enemy be camping.

 

[PETER PAN]

I've heard your quite the stacking cunt on top of being good Ace, so you can :RIP:

You can ask among the admins if i'm the one stacking or not.

 

[copper]

That makes for a very plausible argument when your teammates are alive or enemies are making noise. Not so much when I've been spec'ing you all round and can hear what you hear and see you adapt to an undetectable threat... over and over and over.

 

[STERLINGARCHER]

But I've heard your quite the stacking cunt on top of being good Ace, so you can :RIP:

this is false, he is usually one of the first to load and choose a team, unfortunately the teams get stacked by everyone wanting to be on peters team

 

[PETER PAN]

That makes for a very plausible argument when your teammates are alive or enemies are making noise. Not so much when I've been spec'ing you all round and can hear what you hear and see you adapt to an invisible threat... over and over and over.

Then you must have seen me getting flanked over and over and over, or getting camped over and over and over. Sometimes, i even run into enemies with a knife thinking that my team was covering that spot.