dumb ass americans

[Steve]

[quote1253299866=Doolox]

I believe Denmark was one example I remember reading where health care, public transportation, insurance, etc. are all government run and extremely efficient. With the work I was looking at there is a correlation between taxation and general happiness of a population. Doesn't mean they always spend it appropriately, but it seems to level the playing field, which is what Marine is after..
[/quote1253299866]

The problem is that Denmark's population is only 5.5 million and Denmark is MUCH smaller then canada or the united states.

The US will never have a public transit to rival any of those European countries.

 

[Doolox]

[quote1253300265=Steve]
[quote1253299866=Doolox]

I believe Denmark was one example I remember reading where health care, public transportation, insurance, etc. are all government run and extremely efficient. With the work I was looking at there is a correlation between taxation and general happiness of a population. Doesn't mean they always spend it appropriately, but it seems to level the playing field, which is what Marine is after..
[/quote1253299866]

The problem is that Denmark's population is only 5.5 million and Denmark is MUCH smaller then canada or the united states.

The US will never have a public transit to rival any of those European countries.
[/quote1253300265]

Why not?
From a Toronto perspective, the poorest and most violent areas of the city are the ones that are served the least by the TTC.

 

[Cock]

[quote1253300417=Steve]

Libertarian or GTFO.
[/quote1253300417]

somehow I'm not surprised.

so correct me if i'm wrong Steve. Your OK if the company you work for lowers your wages to pay for your health care but not okay with the Government getting money from you to pay for health care? Some how that doesn't quite add up to me since either way your out the money.

what about people who work for themselves? why should they be forced to pay for a healthcare company that will most likely try to ditch them when a real problem happens?

Lets just get one thing straight you can not apply the Canadian system to the USA it's just not possible.
Obama is however trying to make an alternative to the For profit companies by offering a NON Profit system.

 

[Steve]

[quote1253302246=cock]
[quote1253300417=Steve]

Libertarian or GTFO.
[/quote1253300417]


why should they be forced to pay for a healthcare company that will most likely try to ditch them when a real problem happens?


[/quote1253302246]

I have never seen a case(1st hand, not bullshit on the news about some mother fucker I have never met) where the HC company drops them AFTER they get sick/issues appear. That is pretty illegal if I am not mistaken.

A close family friend of mine was inch's from death last year because of major platelet issues(his count was under 50,000) that kept him in ICU for 4 weeks and then CCU for another 3, he also spent 3 months in a rehad home. All of this was paid in full by his 'for profit' HC provider.

In fact, under Minnesota stature the hospitals are not suppose to inquire about insurance if you are in the ICU until after you are stabilized.

MY PROBLEM, is that I AM covered WELL under this 'for profit' system, and under Obama's I will be trading down for a less quality coverage.

I don't want to wait months for a MRI, I want one today if I need it.

What you guys seem to not understand is that ALL HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS HAVE A DOWN SIDE. It just so happens that at this time, the current one DOES NOT EFFECT ME. So why would I want to change it for something that will?

 

[Steve]

[quote1253303034=Doolox]
[quote1253300265=Steve]
[quote1253299866=Doolox]

I believe Denmark was one example I remember reading where health care, public transportation, insurance, etc. are all government run and extremely efficient. With the work I was looking at there is a correlation between taxation and general happiness of a population. Doesn't mean they always spend it appropriately, but it seems to level the playing field, which is what Marine is after..
[/quote1253299866]

The problem is that Denmark's population is only 5.5 million and Denmark is MUCH smaller then canada or the united states.

The US will never have a public transit to rival any of those European countries.
[/quote1253300265]

Why not?
From a Toronto perspective, the poorest and most violent areas of the city are the ones that are served the least by the TTC.
[/quote1253303034]

The US is to big and spread out, which is why we have so many drivers and such a weak transit system.

some big cities in the US(and canada) do/could have good systems, but I don't live in the city. I live in the north burbz

 

[Steve]

and this all goes back to bob from accounting theory.

It's all about selfishness. I am going to support what is best for me.

 

[auron]

[quote1253307554=Steve]
and this all goes back to bob from accounting theory.

It's all about selfishness. I am going to support what is best for me.
[/quote1253307554]
You learn about Egoists in your ethics class yet Steve?

 

[Steve]

We just started that in the last class session.

Ethical Egoism is basically where my moral beliefs are.. fuck all that stupid Kant shit.

 

[Leroy]

Nobody is arguing that steve, that all HC plans have a downside. In Canada, you can be on the waiting list a long time. This sucks for your average big roller because he can just pay his way to the front of the line.

Since there are more poor people than rich, in our system, this gives them a fair chance, and I myself, don't mind that.

I give everyone a fair shake

 

[Remy]

If im not mistaken rich canadians can still cross the border for medical treatment no?

 

[TurboTaco]

[quote1253333799=Remy]
If im not mistaken rich canadians can still cross the border for medical treatment no?
[/quote1253333799]

Of course you can; if you have money, you can do whatever you want. Canada has a few private clinics running as well, despite controversy.

Again, Obama's choice of creating a gov't funded SUBSIDIZED health care option is so that the 40+ million uninsured have an option at getting some form of healthcare.

Its not free healthcare, and despite having a portion of your taxes go towards setting up this healthcare, its the ones using it that will be 'paying' for it thru their taxes + medical claims.

All middle to upper class americans ($150,000+) likely have their own private HMO plans. Those low to lower-middle class will be given an option of getting a gov't health care plan that is cheaper than what a private insurer asks for, while still offering most of the same coverages.

Obama isn't getting rid of privatized health insurers, he's providing a government-regulated health care option for the people who can't afford $100s to $1000s of dollars monthly for their medical insurance + expenses.

And come on steve, don't be so naive. A private healthcare insurer is like ANY business entity. Make profits + grow. Although it probably IS illegal to flat out deny an insured client over nothing, they use loopholes. Trust me, i worked for an insurance company (The Co-operators) for 4 years. Insurers make money from premiums (the monthly shit HMO's require you to pay to be covered). Claims are the mother-of-all-losses for insurance companies. Even if the private insurance company has claims adjusters that approve a dying patients claim, the amount of red-tape and hoop-jumping that THEY CAN make you do is ridiculous. And by the time your claim gets cleared, they hope you're already dead to rake back their 'losses' (Aka your monthly payments) and cut your family a lighter check vs paying ongoing medical expenses.

Don't have so much faith in private health insurance, and don't knock so much against what Obama is drafting up. It won't hurt you or America as bad as so many say, and again, private health care is still going to exist.

 

[dead mike]

[quote1253363816=Steve]
and this all goes back to bob from accounting theory.

It's all about selfishness. I am going to support what is best for me.
[/quote1253363816]

in other words you try to act rationally. which is best for everyone, good for you buddy have a bluberry muffin

 

[Steve]

i would love a blueberry muffin

 

[foxx]

steve, you win. kudos

 

[marinerevenge]

[quote1253570020=Doolox]
[quote1253297529=MarineRevenge]
My political views align with Socio-anarchism. (socialist + anarchy)
[/quote1253297529]

LOL! You are such a tool. What punk "cool dude" singer are you plagiarizing now? LOL!

It is not possible for anarchy and socialism to exist together, unless you are just looking for choice. So you need to pick one or the other. If we had anarchy, you couldn't play with your toys at will because you can't own any. I thought you were progressing Marine. Did you drop out already & start watching even more counter cultural TV? Oh Chr|st!
[/quote1253570020]

First, I don't watch TV. It rots your brain and fills you with advertisements.. not my thing.

Secondly, I am copying no-one. Anarchism is a philosophy as well as it is a structure (or the lack thereof). The philosophical attributes that I take from it are the ideas of personal freedom and a live and let live lifestyle. Combine that with the positive aspects of socialism that I see to be the government being in charge of the well being of the people and nothing more. No starting wars, no regulating freedoms, no being persuaded behind the curtain by corporations.

Is it probably unreasonable to ever reach such a status? Sure, i'll admit to that. But it doesn't hurt to dream, and in any case that is my idea of a "perfect world". Where the gov't takes care of its citizens, where people can live without fear or hate, and where freedom really is freedom.

 

[Ba Chicka Wa Wa]

If I had to ability to be self sufficient and live in the fucking woods somewhere I so would fuck the world!