Bitcoin donations
- Thread starter Smurf Eater
- Start date
Smurf Eater
Donator Supreme!
Well, I don't want to say it's worth it, a ton of miners are about to come online in the coming days and weeks, so you may make far less than you anticipate and you may have a long wait before you receive yours. If you have $2k that is expendable and you're well off, it might be worth it, might not, I look for the long term when it comes to Bitcoin for most people. I invested a while ago in some miners that I should receive shortly, but will it be worth it to invest in more now? I'm really not so sure about that. You might want to hold off.
Nick
DARKLY Regular
Ya me and my friend were looking into this stuff a few months ago, the only reason why we didnt order one back then back because we checked some of the websites and lots of those reported to have delayed shipping, delayed by a lot.
I am not exactly sure if this thing is gonna grow big enough to be part of a new system, i did some research, half say yes, others say no.
Gatherix
Death by Darkly
I'd advise against it. It's a risky investment to make considering the future profitability isn't known yet, and the amount of electricity those things eat up can sometimes cost more than your gross income from them. If you want one, be sure to do the math on the cost of electricity it'll consume (based off your current electricity bill), the cost of the machine, and the amount you'll make in a mining pool; most larger pools should provide statistics and such for you to work. If it turns out you have a small profit margin after doing the math or if it'd take years to pay off the cost (assuming the Bitcoin prices stay constant, which could wildly change in either direction), all the more reason to avoid it. If not, and you don't mind the risk or the bandwidth that thing'll suck up, then go for it.
Smurf Eater
Donator Supreme!
First off, everything is backed by nothing. There is nothing out there that isn't just as worthless as Bitcoin, we give these things value. Bitcoin is actually backed by everything. Bitcoin is being traded in every currency out there, gold, silver, oil, and now stocks and futures. As far as the ups and downs of Bitcoin, they follow the ups and downs for the inception of any similar thing, whether it is a new currency, the Iraqi Stock Exchange, or whatever. There is a period when the innovators invest, and build up, then the early adopters, and then it goes mainstream. I still think the value of Bitcoin can drop considerably, but that's because there are currently more and more miners coming online, and those people mining are selling their Bitcoin to cover their expenses. The price is as high as it is now because of speculators, but even if it drops to $40, it still does its job. Most vendors immediately turn received Bitcoin into cash, so there is little to no loss there. Some of the main reasons for the jumps and drops in value were actually because of hackers. There was primarily one exchange that held the lion's share of Bitcoin trading, over 70%, that is Mt. Gox. Hackers attacked the exchange to cause tremendous jumps in value for their advantage. Since that time more exchanges have opened, and many are implementing safeguards to prevent such attacks again. Since Mt. Gox has implemented their own safeguards, the price has leveled off and we haven't seen any huge, quick changes in price. (People tried arguing that this was regulation, and that they thought we wanted a free market, those are just the haters who disapprove of a true free market, stopping hackers is not regulation.) As far as inflation goes, that's exactly the point of Bitcoin, no inflation at all. Inflation is why the value of the dollar in your pocket is plummeting. It is why the economy is crashing, you can't just print more money to make up for a poor budget. Realize that people like Krugman (a nut all his own) wanted to mint a trillion dollar coin. What a great idea, that's why we didn't do it, because immediately after doing so the value of the dollar would crash. What is sad is now that we are printing so much money with this Quantitative Easing, we can't stop. Because if we do it will crash the economy, but it's too late now, there is no turning back. By trying to artificially correct the market, they've created an even greater peril. As soon as the quantitative easing stops, there will be problems like no tomorrow. Now the European Central Bank spoke against Bitcoin, and a month later ok'ed the first bank in Europe to trade in it, and have since allowed more. Canada has just recently ok'ed Bitcoin as well. Last quarter there were nearly as many Bitcoin client downloads in China as the U.S. (China's economy is booming and they jump all over a good thing when they see it.) The biggest booming industry in the world is any company involved exclusively in Bitcoin, and if anything, it may very well save the U.S. from the dire situation we've put ourselves, and the world in. Bitcoin is actually making up for those losses due to inflation, and businesses are rapidly switching to Bitcoin completely or going hybrid in Bitcoin and fiat currency. As far as regulating Bitcoin, you can't do it lol, that's the point of Bitcoin, unless all the governments of the world completely take over and control the entire internet, more tight than China does today. As far as the U.S. dollar being the prime foundation of currency and trade, have you noticed that countries aren't trading oil in the dollar anymore? They're trading in other currencies. Also states in the U.S. are making back up currencies and investing in gold because of the possibility of the collapse of the dollar. Gold hasn't backed the dollar since Nixon. In fact the rumors are that we don't have any gold in our reserves, that it was secretly sold off. People have inquired, even U.S. Senators, and no one has been able to see the gold to audit it to make sure it's there. In fact a few years ago a news crew was allowed in with a Senator, and one of the gold bars with it's serial number actually proved to be on paper, in a different location. The word going around is that there is more gold on paper than exists in our vault, and when people realize that, there will be another crash, which is why Germany along with other countries are trying to withdraw all their gold from banks in NY. As far as the value of gold, China and Russia have been buying Billions upon Billions, while the West has been trying to seriously devalue gold completely (because we don't have any). Gold is fairly easy to manipulate, but Bitcoin being tied to so many currencies, futures, and now stocks, once it completely takes hold, will be a very difficult thing to manipulate, unless it is easy to manipulate all the currencies of the world.
Smurf Eater
Donator Supreme!
A 5 G/hash miner which I am currently running, currently mines me about 1 Bitcoin a week running 24/7. 4 weeks = 4 Bitcoins which currently = $400 while only costing about maybe $40 on my electric bill. That is due to change very soon drastically though. My miner cost $150 + ~$100 shipping, by the end of the month I should be more than even. I will probably make my fair share and more, but those of you investing late, may not see a profit at all. It all depends because everyone is jumping on the band wagon now.
Gatherix
Death by Darkly
Commodities are backed by their use. That's what drives all commodity prices, ultimately. If oil couldn't be used for any pragmatic purpose, be it gasoline, plastics, fossil fuels, whatever, we wouldn't care much for it at all. It would have very little monetary value. Bitcoin's backing is its characteristics that make good currencies, as I explained before: divisibility, liquidity, durability, et cetera, and the abilities it has outside of current currencies, such as extremely fast and cheap transferring overseas and decentralization. That's what it's backed by. It's not backed by gold, silver, and all that stuff. Those are certainly in many ways positive characteristics and benefits; sending massive amounts of funds across the globe in seconds with minuscule fees a pragmatic use. But that doesn't make it a currency. And this is an issue with all virtual currencies; valuing something that isn't tangible is simply weird and unintuitive. Doesn't mean it can't eventually happen or be widely adopted or whatever, but it can't just automatically happen either. You say "everything" backs Bitcoin; what exactly backs it, and how? How, specifically, does "nearly every Capital Bank" back Bitcoin?
The intention of said hackers was to cause panic selling, which still happens from external stimulation in other currencies and commodities. Nearly all currencies and commodities are vulnerable to this, and in the case of Bitcoins a simple DDOS attack isn't the only method of doing so. Just like how a false Tweet sent the DOW plunging 143 points in minutes, a fake government-regulation could do the same to Bitcoin. Thus, every market has outside variables frequently negative, influencing prices. Bitcoin is no different, and it's hacking problems aren't gone. Ultimately it is a piece of software with open code; as technology develops and new 'hackers' come into the world, the risk of the code being exploited or a vulnerability being found is always present, and is not something easily fixed. A single compromise could destroy the entire system, especially without a centralized distributor of software.
My point with inflation was why the Government, Unites States or otherwise, will not ultimately allow the free operation of a system like Bitcoin. Regulations will eventually be made. Sure, for now the Government can't shut it down or fully prevent people from using it. But it could certainly make it impossible to adapt of a standard form of currency, especially for functioning in basic living. And if that were to happen, Bitcoin's uses and potential would shrink, sending its value down for good.
I would argue this is what Bitcoin is attempting.
I never said it was the prime foundation of currency and trade internationally, rather it's the prime currency of trade in the United States. If I implied otherwise, my apologies for the unclear writing.
Yes, quite true, but if it's severely restricted or limited in use its chance to be adopted as a standard form of currency is drastically reduced, unless we were to rise into anarchy. Bitcoin's potential would be much smaller, and the majority of people 'investing" in Bitcoin are betting on that potential. If that potential disappears, much of Bitcoin's userbase will too as they'll lose or hope in the system. That's what makes it so oddball and interesting now; it has so much potential and no one knows yet what's going to happen. It could absolutely become the standard currency and all that fun stuff. It could happen. It could also torpedo and disappear forever. Both are feasible. And that makes it wildly interesting and risky.
Smurf Eater
Donator Supreme!
I have similar discussions with all people that aren't too keen on Bitcoin. I guess we'll just have to see 
Gatherix
Death by Darkly
I have similar discussions with all people that aren't too keen on Bitcoin. I guess we'll just have to see
I don't mean to play the anti-Bitcoin guy here. I think it's really interesting, and it deserves a lot of development and attention. But if we keep debating on this we'll just become entrenched in opposing arguments. People both for and against Bitcoins have valid arguments, but since it's such a new concept we can't really be sure about anything. We've just got to wait and see what happens.
btw Smurf Eater did you send anything to that wallet? I don't see anything.
EDIT: Nevermind I see it now. Thanks!
EDIT: Nevermind I see it now. Thanks!
Invest in watches.
$alvador
TD Member
Whoa, where the fuck did you get a 5 GH/s miner for $150? With that kind of juice it might actually be worth getting into this racket. Also, are you mining solo or part of a pool?
Smurf Eater
Donator Supreme!
I ordered a Butterfly labs 5 GH/s miner back in August of 2012 for $150 at that time. If I had more money, I would've ordered a ton more, and would be very well off right now.
Smurf Eater
Donator Supreme!
I expect to get 2 more within a month, problem is that I hear they are so backlogged that people ordering now won't see one until 2014.
$alvador
TD Member
Cool, I saw that miner although it costs more nowadays. I'm curious what kind of wizard shit is going on there, I assume custom FPGA since it's so small and light on power. Nice buy. I think I'll give Litecoin mining a shot since it hasn't caught on enough yet to have custom miners so my poor ol GPU might still be relevant