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Wealth distribution in America

Discussion in 'Serious F'n Business' started by Cock, Aug 7, 2013.

Thread Status:
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  1. Cock

    Cock Cockilicious Staff Member

    This is why blind-party following is stupid. The plants should have never been closed. no party should have the power to shut something like that down with out over site.

    McGuinty is also part of the Liberal party, but he's shown himself to be far from a Liberal.

    By now the MegaCity, that Mike Harris said would save us money, is surely close to that Billion dollars in waisted money over ten years later. It will continue to bleed for years to come.

    Bob Rae saved Ontario almost 2 Billion with what's now known as the Rae Days. His plan made it so no layoffs had to happen. people bitched and hated him for it.

    The ConFeds spent 2.2 Million on ... Wait for it ...


    Their whole party plan is that hey are fiscally responsible, yet waist money left and right and try to get away with it. Amongst other stupid things, like putting a Gag order on Scientists.

    Which ties into my other post about accountability being more important then the size of a Government. The system is fucked, no doubt, but gutting it is not a solution IMO.

    Well that rant went on longer then I thought.
  2. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin


    Here is a very recent article outlining some of the brick walls, let alone hurdles, that young/new entrepreneurs face.

    For the non-torontonites, Queen Street is a long street in the down-town core that stretches through various parts of town. If you walk 10-15km east to west along Queen you’ll get a pretty good feel for what Toronto is about.

    It’s also littered with small, private stores that offer a wide variety of products.

    However, as the city has gotten denser ( seemingly endless condo construction along with skyrocking land values), landlords have begun to raise rent. And raise it big time.

    So people pull out.. or worse yet, don’t even start, because they can’t possibly justify a 8-12k rent on what is usually a very old and poorly maintained building. 95% of all the stores on Queen are falling apart, but the landlords don’t care.

    Right now they are just sitting on their goldmines waiting for another big retailer to swoop in and open up a store, pushing out the little guy.

    These spaces will all be filled eventually. But it won’t be by budding entrepreneurs, but by large corporations. And you don’t get to be your own boss in a large corporation… no matter how hard you work.

    So how about dem apples.
    TinanaBoa likes this.
  3. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin

  4. Brades

    Brades Bailer Staff Member

    wtf are you going on about now?
  5. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin

  6. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin


    This week, the Department of Justice ordered JPMorgan Chase to pay a record fine for their role in the financial crisis of 2008. The bank had been under numerous state and federal level investigations into the bank’s sale of troubled mortgage investments. Those investments were one of the major contributors to the worldwide financial collapse.
    The deal requires JPMorgan Chase to pay $13 billion in penalties, a clear sign that the Obama administration – sometimes viewed as being a little too friendly with big banks – is finally gaining traction in their effort to rein in the types of unaccountability that led to the recession.
    But Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) says that isn’t enough. In a letter addressed to the Federal Reserve, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and the Officer of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), Warren argues that what happened at JPMorgan Chase and other banks was criminal and therefore charges should be brought up against those who were responsible for the decisions.
    Warren pointed out that the overseer of the TARP bailout had done a fantastic job of identifying, prosecuting and convicting those who were caught abusing the TARP money. Even more impressive, the TARP overseers were able to do so with a minimal staff and budget. She gives a table showing just how different the budgets are between the TARP staff and the bigger agencies in charge of overseeing the financial sector.
    So how many criminal charges of CEOs and executives have those well supported agencies made?​
    She called on the Fed, the SEC, and the OCC to provide records on the number of people the agencies have charged criminally and civilly, the number of convictions and prison sentences they have obtained, the number of people banned or suspended from working in the industry, and the total amount of fines leveled against Wall Street ne’er-do-wells.
    Warren knows the answer to most of these questions, but wants to shame the agencies into action. Yes, big banks have been forking over billions of dollars in civil settlements for bad behavior in the lead up to the crisis. There have been prosecutions of various smaller mortgage brokers, and some civil charges and settlements against executives who helped cause the crisis. But zero Wall Street CEOs are in jail for bringing down the economy, and no CEOs have faced criminal charges.[source]
    Zero Wall Street CEOs are in jail. In a crisis that cost an estimated $14 trillion not one company leader has faced charges. Some of those execs lost their jobs, some got new jobs, but every single one of them has never served a single day in jail over the destruction of the world economy.
    The government has shown a reluctance to going after big banks, with some – including Attorney General Eric Holder – arguing that banks may be “too big to jail.” During a congressional testimony earlier this year, Holder worried over the impact enforcing the law for banks would have in terms of the economy.
    “I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult for us to prosecute them when we are hit with indications that if you do prosecute, if you do bring a criminal charge, it will have a negative impact on the national economy, perhaps even the world economy,” Holder said, according to The Hill. “And I think that is a function of the fact that some of these institutions have become too large.”​
    To go after the banks and their captains would have also put the Obama administration in a politically awkward place by demonizing the very banks that the taxpayers were spending billions to bail out. Instead, the administration just choose to drop it, hoping the public would lose interest and the banks would learn their lesson on their own.
    Warren doesn’t agree. She closes her letter by saying that individuals and institutions must be held accountable for their actions if we are to avoid another mess borne from greed and corruption.
    “[A] great deal of work remains to be done to hold institutions and individuals accountable for breaking the rules and to protect consumers and taxpayers from future violations. Strong enforcement is an important deterrent, and I believe transparency is critical.”​
    - See more at: http://www.classwarfareexists.com/e...c-put-bank-ceos-in-jail/#sthash.8FX8V7xP.dpuf
    Cock and TinanaBoa like this.
  7. Xilorator

    Xilorator Blackpulse Admin


    Yes the banks caused this.... Not quite. The federal government is the one that was indirectly forcing the banks to make those bad/risky loans because everyone deserves to "own" a home right... So the government thought... No, not everyone deserve to own a home. It was the government's policy which started this and by backing all the banks.
  8. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin

  9. Xilorator

    Xilorator Blackpulse Admin

    Yes, they kept piling up more money. So why in the world would you want a socialist economy where the government is making even more decisions than they are now???
  10. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin

    looks like we've got a Steve Jr. overhere.

    I don't think you're properly educated in the matter. All i've been getting from you is age old rhetoric.

    Why does more government control all of a sudden mean socialism.

    Why is it that the moment we try to have coporations accounted for their wrong doings we're socialists?

    And why do you think socialism is bad? Do you even understand the full definition of the thing?
  11. Xilorator

    Xilorator Blackpulse Admin

    Since you probably want more government control then there is now I'd say you are pushing closer to socialism in my opinion.

    Corporations should be accountable for their wrong doings but the market isn't working that way because you have government intrusion into the system supporting that very same broken system. What doesn't the government have control of in one way or another?

    Yes, I do know what socialism is. It's a system that has failed where as Capitalism has created the fastest economic growth the world has ever seen. Socialism provides no economic/personal incentive.

    My age old rhetoric is still standing strong to this day. So if people can be manipulated by money which is what you are getting at and people work in government, why would you want more people in government, it's less responsibility on their part and more pointing and blaming like we have today. More people in government making decisions about what you and I can do = more control of the everyday things.
  12. Ghett0

    Ghett0 DARKLY Regular

    I'm going to keep my contribution as brief as possible because I tend to get taken out of context.

    I've been involved in many debates regarding the distribution of wealth and the flaws of the economic system.

    In short, our economic system is one which presumes infinite growth in a world of finite resource; an assumption which is inherently flawed. This creates a game of musical chairs where someone always gets stuck without a chair when the music stops and the vultures pick their carcass clean, financially speaking.

    Though I have heard many arguments regarding how there are great ways to solve this problem (Which would all revolve around a new economic system which revolves around maximizing efficiency and eliminating waste, a much more viable way to make the most of our finite resources), there is one unfortunate human element that will prevent this from becoming a reality.

    No one likes to quit playing Monopoly when they are winning and have hotels on Boardwalk. When that person also happens to be the one who owns the board and is hosting the Monopoly party.... well, you can wish they'll "Start over with fair rules" in one hand, and you can poop in another......

    They have a saying in the world of Finance. There are three ways to get ahead. Be first, be smarter, or cheat. They got their first, when it comes to the current system, they are smarter, and if somehow, the 99% found a way to be first AND smarter, guess what's gonna happen?

    Everyone hates the idea of a plutocracy until they get a taste of what it's like to be the 1%, and then, how quickly do the Horses become pigs. (Animal Farm reference ftw.)

    And I'll shut up now. :P
  13. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin

    wrong, your textbook answer does not apply
    the situation you're describing is a perfect capitalist scenario. The market is god insofar as everyone involved is fair and that the consumer is perfectly informed. If you need me to explain to you how neither is even a remotely true then please seppuku right now.

    again, you're using very basic terms here. "government control" and "socialism." This could say as little or as much as anything else.
    also why do you chose to use the word "control," why not the word "oversight" or maybe even "involvement" or "partnership." Why are you so polarized?

    Socialism did not fail. Every current G20 country has some form of socialized governance. At the very least the fire and police departments. In canada we have socialized healthcare and education (up to end of highschool) with our colleges and universities being heavily subsidies (about 70%). Not counting countless other social programs each and every country has that would have simply never existed if they were based on a for-profit model.

    IF you are referring to Communist Soviet Union, then you need to crack open your history books and understand that their situation is nothing like what is going on today. It would take me a day to write you a correct response but for now just try to understand a couple of things. The telecommunications infrastructure of the 1930-1960 wasn't anywhere near where it needed to be for a communism model to function. If you have ever bothered to read a single book that even remotely outlines the necessary structures of different forms of economic and political systems then you would know this.

    The USSR was made up for far too many different nationalities and lands far too apart. The revolution of the 1920’s came at a time of public despair and the rise of the lower classes. The Russian mentality, I’m afraid, is generally not one to bow down to a master or follow strict rules. Russians generally do what they want and generally think that their actions could do no wrong. Kind of similar to a typical American… but I digress. The revolution came and destroyed the last remnants of a dying aristocracy. The last king and his family were executed and the country changed its landscape forever. WW1, WW2, Finnish War, Cold War, Afghanistan, Chechnya. The country has been in ruins for the better part of the last CENTURY. Aside from Pearl Harbor, America hasn’t seen true warfare on its shores since the colonial times. Are you really going to blame the USSR’s collapse based on an economic model alone?

    Also I’d point out that the 1960-1980 years were relatively prosperous. My dad had a good job, had his own house and a car all by age 30. He was able to support me and my mother on a single income. My mother had me enrolled in numerous after-school clubs (painting, sculpting, swimming, drawing etc) without having to pay a cent.

    There were many things that led to the collapse, but it can never be attributed to the economic model alone. Corruption was a big factor. As was a refusal to co-operate with the west. Had more free-trade taken place between the different countries then maybe there wouldn’t be so much anonymity. Also I don’t think maintaining ownership of so many satellite states was a good idea. Russia should have never occupied so much land after WW2 and just given it back… but ohh well, you can’t really blame them for trying.

    So that’s just a TINY bit on that.

    On to CHINA

    CHINA far outlasted the USSR. For many reasons, but one of which the simple fact that the traditional Chinese People are more tamed and docile. You can scream racism but there is plenty of literature on the cultural differences between these nations.

    China survived the initial downturn and maintained it’s grasp on the people, and now they are slowly morphing towards more free trade but they are doing it at a much slower pace… and guess what, they are growing at a much faster pace than anyone ever expected, and without a doubt there is a chance we’ll be facing a China dominated world within the next 20 years. No joke.

    Your understanding of life and individual freedoms is so basic I want to punch you.
    OG buckshot jr and Cock like this.
  14. Fork Included

    Fork Included TD Admin

  15. OG buckshot jr

    OG buckshot jr TD Admin

    Wow... brilliantly powerful...
  16. TinanaBoa

    TinanaBoa DARKLY Regular

    Ha! I was just about to post that video.
    Dude is fucn brilliant, seen some of his other interviews and he is impressive.
    Our modern day George Carlin!:freddie:
  17. zackychuu

    zackychuu TD Admin / Wanker

    It's weird to me, seeing Russel Brand so passionate about these types of things.
    I saw him in another interview as well, some American morning show, can't remember the topic.

    When he first came about as a comedian he was seen by a lot of people as an annoying nob...
    Just goes to show that even the most annoying of people can have clearer views that the most powerful.
    Fork Included likes this.
  18. OG buckshot jr

    OG buckshot jr TD Admin

    I agree, and I think in this interview you can see the Paxton playing on that by asking absurd questions like for Brand to come up with the solution. Paxton just sits back and hopes Brand will lose his shit like a junky and thus his credibility. Unfortunately for Paxton, Brand succeeded. Interviews are straight mind-games, man.
    zackychuu and Fork Included like this.
  19. zackychuu

    zackychuu TD Admin / Wanker

    Slightly off topic but still slightly on...
    I watched Frost/Nixon the other week. Watching the interview between Paxton and Brand, it reminded me so much of that interview in the film.
    You could see each of them were trying to psych each other out.

    As you say, it's all pure mind games.
    Trying to trip up your opponent while also trying to come out the bigger man,
    OG buckshot jr likes this.
  20. OG buckshot jr

    OG buckshot jr TD Admin

    Precisely, I agree. Frost/Nixon story is amazing. Read up on it, way better than the movie. The transcripts are out there..
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