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Turban bans (Quebec)

Rams

TD Admin
This is pretty stupid, http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...c-institutions-under-pq-proposal-report-says/. Its not like we are harming anyone and then there was people with turbans are banned from playing soccer. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/sto...ian-soccer-association-quebec-turban-ban.html. FIFA responded that the head coverings are allowed -- on a trial basis and just for the time being. The issue will be discussed in October by the International Football Association Board (IFAB), which determines the rules of the game, and a final decision is expected in March 2014.
 

Fork Included

TD Admin
it's not about hurting anyone

it's about social unity

i'm writing a bigger response and will post later, but the nutshel is that Quebec is 86% catholic christian... and considering that faith has no place in the 21st century anyway, demands for personal exemptions from any minorities hurt the overall goal.

You want to immigrate and live in Quebec, then accept all that is Quebec and abandon your former life. This has always been Quebec's way.
 

Leroy

2012 Troll of the Year
I think it all comes down to this:

In western culture, we view any head cover besides a hardhat or toque as a sign of submission of a person. Canada has long fought for the freedom of it's people to NOT have to wear a head scarf, as it implies domination and ownership of another person, in most cases a woman.

Oddly enough, there is a class of people who have immigrated to Canada and for them its a mix of political, social and religious significance to wear a head covering, but for your average Canadian, it's a slap in a face to voluntarily submit to another person, and thats how we view it.

The turban is another thing, as I'm pretty sure you're average Canadian knows it's religious significance, but it's tied in too tightly (no pun intended) to everything else, after all, where do you draw the line? Can I wear a ballcap and compete in the world cup?

Remember, this is OUR culture, and frankly, it's starting to piss a lot of people off the flagrant disrespect we're shown from newcomers to our country who couldn't give a shit what our cutlure is and hide under the banner of choice, and CHOOSE to insult our culture, by wearing one of these head scarfs.

I frankly respect the french for standing up.

I get it, a turban is NOT a headscarf, it's honestly a shame that it got lumped in with it, but where do you draw the line?
 

zackychuu

TD Admin / Wanker
Honestly...and this is from the perspective of someone whose city is currently, for lack of a better word, over-run by Asian culture.
I agree with a lot of what Leroy said.
If Quebec, or even the whole of Canada do not draw some standards, then they will end up like my City.

English people are so downtrodden, on their own soil, here...it's un-real.
It's gotten to the point where it is "offensive" for us to celebrate St Georges day.
But it's perfectly alright for a Ramadam festival to take up the whole of town.

I'm not saying that banning people from wearing their own religious symbols or outfits is right, but like Leroy said, lines have to be drawn.
 

Fork Included

TD Admin
Quebec is 83.6% Catholic Christian

Clashing of religion is the number one catalyst for human conflict followed by Nationalism.

We’ve got Nationalism more or less under control… England isn’t conquering France just for the fuck of it. But Religion and Political Ideologies still fuel the majority of our conflicts.

There are two ways to deal with these problems.

a. Everyone hug and make nice
b. Follow the rules of a single group

“A” is failing almost unilaterally across all countries. There are very few cases where people of all backgrounds come together and live peacefully. There are always tensions and they lead to conflict. The case of the middle-east couldn’t be more clear.

And “B” is often exaggerated and escalated to some unarguable levels by referencing Hitler and Co. But the truth is that there is little argument for any person, especially a minority, to walk into a new place where people have established laws and social practices and start asking for special treatment.

The turban is not a HAT. The turban is one of the most easily recognized religious symbols. So don’t treat it like it ain’t no thang.

What’s happening in Quebec is not about the turban, it has never been about the clothing… the turban, the burka, the “personal knives” or even skin colour. It is about Religion. Quebec doesn’t want the influence of other religions in their province, plain and simple.

If Quebec was built and groomed by Christians, and you deemed the place good enough to live that you decided to leave your home country, then MAYBE your way of life and the way of life of your people has something to learn from them Christians… why not abandon your old life and try it the way they do it.


***Having said that I believe Religion has NO PLACE in the 21st century so I support whatever quebec is doing on a fundamental basis. I figure if they can abolish all but ONE religion then it will be easier to quash that one religion and then we can all finally live peaceful lives. ****
 

Fork Included

TD Admin
I particularly like this part of the article

“Quebec has launched its next debate on minority accommodation”

Here is the truth. Quebec and the rest of Canada are fucking amazing. They will take in pretty much anyone who wants to immigrate. In fact, from personal experience and knowledge, I can tell you that people who come here as refugees from poor nations or literally escaping death from prosecution will be admitted without a second glance.

**It’s actually kind of absurd how difficult the road is for people who apply through the correct channels**

I think surrendering your old way of life for a chance to start a new one is a pretty good fucking deal, considering that unlike skin colour and sexual bias, FAITH is ENTIRELY A PERSONAL CHOICE.

And guess what, if you’re that much of a stubborn asshole that you don’t want to give up your faith, no one is forbidding you to practice it, just KEEP IT TO YOURSELF AND TO YOUR HOME, which is the point of these proposed law changes of keeping religious symbols out of public life.
 

Leroy

2012 Troll of the Year
Which is why I find the average Canadian is getting pretty pissed off by the disrespect.
 

OG buckshot jr

TD Admin
The only picture I have in my head is when I saw two girls (approximately 16-18) wearing hijabs/turbans on the news: there was a ceremony and moment of silence for those Canadians fallen in WWII. These two girls stood on the sidewalk and were screaming, yelling etc. in blatent disrespect of Canada and it's people, because of some bullshit reason they had ready. Funny, this is the same country that rescued these 'refugees' (RE: Entitled rat-bastard garbage) and let them into our country.

EDIT: I guaren-fuckin-tee these girls are going to university on my dollar, too. Lastly, the site memorial was later vandalized with permanent marker, with absolutely nasty things written on them.

I'm tired of sending my tax money over to countries that come here freely, shit on my country, its values, its people, abuse all of the used-to-be wonderful systems just to funnel money out of Canada, and all in the end claim some bullshit racial/religious/insert-loophole-here card and then the average Canadian has to look bad.

+1 Quebec, I hope Ontario starts this.
 

zackychuu

TD Admin / Wanker
Few months ago there was a news story in my city...
2 White British Guys were in a Newsagents buying some stuff, when this little Asian kid starts hurling Racial abuse at both of them.
Naturally the guys got annoyed and said some things back.

Guess who got the punishment for racist comments?

I don't mind having any other races/cultures/religions in the area, infact I think it's great to have a culturally diverse City because otherwise we would all turn into Westboro Baptist Church type people.
But when these same people are allowed to throw racial abuse towards us without anyone batting an eye...it's just dumb.
 

OG buckshot jr

TD Admin
Few months ago there was a news story in my city...
2 White British Guys were in a Newsagents buying some stuff, when this little Asian kid starts hurling Racial abuse at both of them.
Naturally the guys got annoyed and said some things back.

Guess who got the punishment for racist comments?

I don't mind having any other races/cultures/religions in the area, infact I think it's great to have a culturally diverse City because otherwise we would all turn into Westboro Baptist Church type people.
But when these same people are allowed to throw racial abuse towards us without anyone batting an eye...it's just dumb.

Welcome to what I like to call "The Canadian Double-Standard". Sadly, it seems our government is over-compensating for some of the bias that might have occurred a century or more ago.

The most exciting thing for me is that if I went to [insert your favourite immigrant country here] and stole an apple, my hand would be cut off and I'd be jailed for 20 years, or hung. Publicly. But here, fuck, I'd go to jail for racism/discrimination if I accused someone of stealing an apple.
 

Ghett0

DARKLY Regular
This is pretty stupid, http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...c-institutions-under-pq-proposal-report-says/. Its not like we are harming anyone and then there was people with turbans are banned from playing soccer. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/sto...ian-soccer-association-quebec-turban-ban.html. FIFA responded that the head coverings are allowed -- on a trial basis and just for the time being. The issue will be discussed in October by the International Football Association Board (IFAB), which determines the rules of the game, and a final decision is expected in March 2014.

The club that I ref for (I am an OSA licensed soccer referee) pulled their kids out of a friendly tournament to be played in Quebec in early May (which is the start of soccer season in this country) in protest to this ruling.

What made it all the more ridiculous is that Quebec made this decision about 2 weeks after the CSA (Canadian Soccer Association) backed FIFA's decision that turbans do not pose a threat to player safety and are acceptable dress on the pitch. Thankfully, due to immense public outcry and resistance at all levels, from players to coaches to referees (like myself) who refused to be involved in any tournament or league which would make such a discriminatory decision forced the Quebec league to reverse their decision.

Now, this was not deemed a license to do whatever you want on the pitch and use religion as your shield to justify it. There i a ceremonial dagger which Sikh men are supposed to keep on them at all times which is NOT allowed on the pitch under any circumstance (I forget what the dagger is called and won't belittle my Sikh friends by guessing.)

Similarly, wearing of hijab is discouraged on the pitch as it impedes the players vision.

Why Quebec would do something so blatantly discriminatory is beyond me, but given all the other ludicrous "Language police" rulings they have made and other headline grabbing nonsense they have engaged in in the past 6 months tells me that this Quebec provincial government is, pardon me for saying so, completely ass-backwards.

That is not a condemnation of the Quebec people or of French Canadians, just an honest criticism of their current government. If we were to pass judgment on people for the choices of their government, I wouldn't have a single North American friend left given the lunacy of the American government and the increasingly heinous gagging and suppressing of the Federal government in Canada of scientists, environmental researchers and, by and large, the intelligentia who choose to work outside of the Financial sector.

(That's not to say I am a "Harper hater". There is an awful lot of things that Harper does that I support; free trade, hard-nosed negotiations with foreign powers, an obstinate dedication to our own national sovereignty and a willingness to play hard-ball with trading partners like America and others who try to influence-peddle us into making decisions that will cripple our economy in order for them to wear our sacrifices on their sleeves like it was our duty to respect an environment that they so heinously exploit, damage and ignore.

That being said, I think that, foreign policy aside, the way Harper treats the people WITHIN our country leaves much to be desired, but that's a story for another thread.
 

OG buckshot jr

TD Admin
How does head butting the ball with a turban work?
It doesn't, and you will never see it on any proper pitch. This is only an issue here in Canadastan. Heaven forbid the people of Quebec or any other non-immigrant, non-'minority' (minority in quotes because a lot of these so-called minorities are anything but a minority) people attempt to preserve their culture(s).

Unless it's headgear to cover a wound (which would only be allowed for professionals because they are paid to play, and as such their services on the pitch are required by contract) such as the protective cover that Petr Cech wears (goolge him, he had his skull cracked a number of years back and cannot play without it).

As far as I'm concerned, this is a joke. I sure as fuck wouldn't be allowed to play [sport] with a hat because I'm cold (football or, as some ridiculously still call it, soccer, plays through some very cold weather). Rules are rules. No like? Don't play.
 

Ghett0

DARKLY Regular
Rules are rules. No like? Don't play.

FIFA is changing the Laws of the Game (aka the Rules) to allow turbans.

Therefore, with the "Rules are the rules" argument, turbans are perfectly fine. For now, anyhow, as FIFA like the hedge it's bets by saying "We will allow it.... for now, on a trial basis" which is double talk for "I support this fully until I see a reason why I shouldn't, in which case I will say I never REALLY supported it, I'm just playing both sides of the coin until I find out where it lands".

Immigrants make HUGE sacrifices to come to this country. Immigration into Canada is NOT an easy process, and it is akin to winning the lottery. Saying that a Would you like it if someone told you you had to be Muslim? Couldn't eat pork? Had to go to church every Sunday?

Of course you wouldn't. You are a Canadian citizen and you are protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and freedoms which is the envy of the civilized world. Countless nations have re-tooled their own Constitutions since 1982 to make their own nations more like our own in this respect.

I have two friends. Both play football (soccer) and both recently became full-fledged Canadian citizens. Should I treat one of them because he is Muslim and has brown skin while the other is white and an atheist-leaning baptized Christian?

No, I shouldn't. CoRaF (Charter of Rights and Freedoms) protects all Canadians equally.

WhatCanadaIs.jpg

This monument stands outside of City Hall and the Courthouse in Ottawa, about 150 meters from the East Block of Parliament.

In my opinion, these simple words embody the heart of the Canadian spirit.

With all due respect, if your words and actions do NOT reflect this spirit, maybe YOU should leave this country, regardless of what colour your skin is. Because I'll take 100 ethnic neighbours from every country, creed and nation and help them adapt to our culture and our country before I support one self-entitled "Born and raised" Canadian in their anti-immigrant and discriminatory views.

If you did, and you spent 10 years living in a shit-hole like Somalia, where people are forced to become pirates because illegal dumping of toxic waste has killed all the fish in their seas and left fishermen with a choice between piracy or starvation, you might have a greater appreciation for what it is to be a Canadian citizen.

While Sardeep, Tarpinder and Xiu Chan from Pakistan, Afghanistan and China will all work 2 jobs for minimum wage for 7 years, learning English AND French, getting two degrees in University (because we won't recognize the ones they brought back from their home countries, like my Chinese neighbour, the aeronautical engineer who delivers bagels for a living because his university was not on the list of those recognized when he came here with his family) will do everything in their power to be able to stand up in front of the world and proudly say "I am a Canadian".

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but there is nothing wrong with that. There is something BEAUTIFUL about that, and if you have ever been to an induction ceremony and seen people break down in tears just because they finally get to say those three little words that you and I taken completely for granted, and you TRAVEL the world and you see how different life is outside these borders, you might begin to have a greater appreciation for the immense privilege which you have been born into by being born in this country.

An appreciation that is not lost on many new Canadians, I assure you that.

CoRaF does not have a time requirement on it. There is no stipulation of seniority or grand-fathering. There is no asterisk or exception. And the day that there is is the day I piss on this country and leave it, never to return.

Let the Americans be the blatant hypocrites who treat their own people like shit and spit on the immigrants that make their country work because spoiled over-privileged American kids won't work at Tim Hortons and McDonalds because "It's too embarrassing" or "They're better than that". Sardeep and Tarpinder will work 8 hour shifts at Tim Hortons AND THEN an 8 hour shift at McDonalds so that we can get fat and get diabetes that their tax dollars pay for the treatment of just like ours do. AND YET, they will STILL send money home to their family and give money to help other people make something of themselves, while we waste our free money on beer, cigarettes and drugs while we talk about how "horrible the country is because of these damn immigrants".

The country isn't a sh1t hole because of immigrants. The country is a sh1t hole because of lazy ignorant residents who have forgotten that, not that long ago, THEY were the new comers to this nation looking to make a better life by working their nuts off for it, free of discrimination and unlawful prosecution in their oppressed homelands.

Just because you and your family were liberated from the chains of your previous home longer ago than they were DOES NOT give you the right, by law, to prevent them from doing the same.

In my opinion, it is completely hypocritical and disrespectful of the privileges you enjoy as a Canadian citizen to attempt to belittle, impede or prevent ANYONE from having an equal opportunity to prove themselves worthy of the greatest citizenship this world has to offer; Canadian citizenship.

Sorry for getting worked up about it, but nothing pisses me off more than when people stomp on the hands of honest people trying to make an honest living in this country because they are too damned ignorant to recognize that they are not destroying our society, they are the life blood of it. And if you can't see that, then it's not because it isn't there to see. It's because there's something wrong with your eyes. You have been fooled by the ignorant rhetoric of lazy, xenophobic Canadians and North Americans who are terrified to have to compete on a level playing field with a newly-landed immigrant in a competitive marketplace for a job and, knowing that they have the inferior work ethic, training and skills to succeed in that competition, and, being incapable of "Being First" or "Being smarter", they have to fall back on the third and final option. They have to cheat.

Turn your Brain hax off, bro. Canadians are supposed to be better than that. Maybe if you hung out with more ethnic Canadians, you'd be a bit more used to that idea. Alls the worse for you. A closed mind is it's own prison cell, and by association, it's own punishment.

/rant complete

PS Arab / Indian b1tches are hot. :P (just my opinion)
 

OG buckshot jr

TD Admin
I'm not even going to finish reading because I think you're brainwashed, and your attempt at making me look like a racist is childish. Whether FIFA changes its rules or not is one thing, and I suppose you're right that they're playing both sides (as they should, in my opinion, because they're not directly implicated. It hasn't happened to them, other football bodies have just blind-sided FIFA for an all-encompasing ruling).

In terms of what you mentioned for immigration - it's only hard if you're not from India. It's very simple, actually. I've had a lot of young, affluent family denied outright, as many, many other families have had to experience. We all know why, just no one's allowed to speak of it because people like you (RE: brainwashed) will cry racism.

In case you're wondering why I have the audacity to call you brainwashed: I noticed your paragraph citing some very stereotypical (some would say racist) names you've given to your Pakistani, Afghani and Chinese examples. In your brain, you're giving these ficticious people in your example the automatic benefit of the doubt that they'll work 8 hours a day, pay taxes, help their families back home (on this specific point, I will agree with you because massive amounts of Canadian money is funneled out every year), etc. while the (according to you) high-held, snobby, entitled, racist Canadian born and raised (which I am not, but thank you for the assumption) people will 'waste' their money on beer, cigarettes etc. You are, literally, not very educated. There's no other way for me to phrase this.

So I've skimmed your post more and you berate me, claiming I "stomp on the hands of honest people trying to make an honest living in this country because they are too damned ignorant to recognize that they are not destroying our society, they are the life blood of it. And if you can't see that, then it's not because it isn't there to see. It's because there's something wrong with your eyes." While I may appreciate where your invalid opinion is coming from, the fact is you don't know me. Perhaps I'll bite and 'let you in' a little bit. I'm not a racist, I'm actually a proponent of immigration. What I'm against, so to speak, is the discrimination against certain nations pertaining to immigration. If Canada is a free country, all is equal, save the trees laddy-da, then Canada should give equal oppertunity to all nations for a chance of immigration instead of denying all but one or two.

Canada has given 'certain nations' (really just one or two) heavy, heavy priority for what they believe to be the nation(s) that produce the most educated people, among other qualities. While this philosophy may look good, the fact is they're dead wrong. There's plenty other nations that produce educated people, willing people, people who want to contribute. There's very obvious reasons why our health-care is plagued with waste, wait times, our pensions disappearing, residency skyrocketing but production, jobs and economy suffering (I don't think most people like yourself are aware at how easily people in these countries can purchase degrees and certificates. Those of us who have careers in such fields see it all the time, but 'once they're in, they're in'), taxes ever-present and ever-increasing (to support the incoming lazies). Due to the problems we are facing, it is very apparent (or at least it should be) that the immigration policies currently in place are doing nothing for Canada or Canadians.

Having said all of the above, it has nothing to do with my perspective on people wearing extra gear on the pitch. The game has never needed it before, so why the outcry now? This game isn't new, and it was never limited to certain nations. It's silly, to be frank. You can't play baseball in shorts because you're too warm. You can't wear your gold chain with a Cross on it during a match, and no one's ever cried and made a stink. My point is this: irrelevant of where you're from or what made-up shit you bow down to - the game is what the game is, and I see this great pressure to change the rules a farce, much like our Canadian RCMP uniform has been gradually forgotten and disgraced. Religion should have no place in sport and country and politics, no matter what sport or country or religion (yes, I am a religious person saying this, and yes I go to Church every Sunday. But who cares? I don't think sports should).
 
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