Tropes vs Women in videogames

[Fork Included]

an interesting series that really puts some of the gaming industry into perspective.

although highly selective, imo, but it's best to view it with an open mind.

 

[MetalLobster]

She's right in that there needs to be a more diverse character base and some devs are trying.

However, this video is horrible. In a lot of her examples, she cherry-picks one or two points in a game where a female character needs help and whistles anti-feminist. Are females not allowed to find themselves in trouble anymore?

Also, Anita clearly hasn't played some, if not most, of the games she uses in her video series because some of her synopsizes are wrong. In Star Fox Adventures for instance, Krystal was captured while looking for answers to the death of her parents, but Fox was sent to Dinosaur Planet to investigate the state of the planet. Fox had no idea Krystal was on the planet, let alone who the fuck she was, until he finds her and decides to save her, but Anita say Fox goes to the planet to save her. When Fox lands on the planet, he had no weapons, as he had no plans to fight anything. After the events of Star Fox Adventures, Krystal joins Fox's team and is present in future games. The cherry-picking, lack of citations in the video descriptions, and quoting devs and publishers out of context are enough for me to dismiss these videos.

TLDR: Good point, bad video.

Straw-man

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Feminism is getting on my fuckin nerves. It's OK to be a woman, just as it is a man. Fuck, these feminists want all the female benefits like shattering a man's entire life through divorce court, double-standards in their favour like physical violence (it's ok when women hit men) etc but hate when they're called women.

 

[Rei]

That's Anita Sarkeesian, one of the worst feminists out there.
I've heard is so much hate on youtube for her that she has to disable rating and commenting on her videos.
Who cares if woman are like that in video games? Just because there are stereotypes doesn't mean it's like that in real life.
We have video games that are set in times where African Americans are slaves and are shown as such. It's really no different.
Also keep note that most of the people creating these Nintendo games were Chinese/Japanese people. They have very different views on woman's rights than we do.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

This has nothing to do with women's rights. This dumb broad is just trying to make a name for herself so she doesn't have to get a regular job.

Things that feminists hate, can't admit, but are true and are not negative what-so-ever:

- men are physically stronger
- sometimes men are smarter, more patient, etc.; sometimes women are better at those things
- women are generally better cooks and parents
- men are more handy
The list goes on. Instead of being proud that both genders have amazing qualities that make them unique and powerful in unity (couples), they [feminists] bitch and moan about shit that isn't really offensive or negative. I absolutely adore the fact that my girlfriend is girly in the sense that she lives to have her nails look nice for me. By the same token, she was right there with me ripping down old drywall and learning how to tape the walls before sanding, priming and painting. It's all relative.

Feminism, to me, is just like the gay fad (I truly believe being gay is cool in toronto) and the black entertainment fiascos (i.e. The Black Film Awards) = it's the hypocritical 'I'm different than you and will do everything to make it known, but please don't point any of it out unless I say so' bullshit.

 

[Fork Included]

while I agree that she cherry picks her games, I think her overall point has merit, which is specifically TROPES

a trope is a literary device used to drive a storyline or characters, and where I agree is the points where I think many stories, not just video games, from books to Hollywood movies, could take a que and start moving away from the tropes she described. There are plenty of movies nowdays that I refuse to watch because the trailer is enough to tell me that what I'm gonna see is pure bullshit.

A good story could be told without having a secondary woman character being held captive or failing to achieve her role and require assistance.

or my personal thoughts on the matter, is why have a princess to save in Mario to begin with. I actually have a hard time imagining someone saying "Ohh man I can't wait until I save that princess! Right after school i'ma load up Mario and try to save her again!"

When you start stacking up all these games the way she did you can see the compounded effect of years of background radiation.

The point is not to make games where the roles are reversed, that doesn't really do anything. The point is to make games where the plot is driven by some sort of outside, greater force or concept.

 

[Roach]

Being a white man is boring as fuck.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

But Fork, there's far more games where the story is driven not by a woman but by something else than there is games that are driven by that. I'd you wanna be "women are god and men are scum" like this idiot broad, then sure look at Mario games all day.

This broad should grow the fuck up and realize new games have nothing of the sort.

 

[Fork Included]

which is why I said I agree that she's cherry picking, but that she's not entirely wrong.

and you're right, more games are being made that elevate themselves above the basic tropes, this is good.

 

[Fork Included]

Being a white man is boring as fuck.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

I agree with you, Fork, I think it's a valid observation as well, however no one needs a bloody feminist to shine a negative light on it because it was never negative to begin with. That's where my problem with feminism begins: there is nothing wrong with a girl who can't change a tire and needs help. I need help changing diapers and cooking because I such at them.

Everybody's good at something, no need to be negative.

/rant in general, not at fork

 

[Roach]

I just think its silly when people go on rants about shit like this in general. About how things just shouldn't be this way. Well tough shit it is. It is because it sells. It sells more for a number of factors. In the Mario case its because there's millions more Japanese boys that want to save the poor useless girl with the pink dress than there is Japanese girls that want to save some neckbeard.

There's more tits and ass on TV than Abs and closeup slowmo Adams apple shots because I legitimately think that there's more girls that get off on girls than there is guys that appreciate a good manass.

What's popular is because it is. I think it's a redundant pointless spew when anyone tries to speak up against what's popular and what sells. It sells because we want it. The issue isn't about what is on the table. Cause what's on the table is exactly what we asked for.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

That's really well said.

 

[MetalLobster]

You can thank social media outlets like tumblr and Twitter for misrepresenting the facts that lead up to shitty movements like #gamergate.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Fork Included]

I just think its silly when people go on rants about shit like this in general. About how things just shouldn't be this way. Well tough shit it is. It is because it sells. It sells more for a number of factors. In the Mario case its because there's millions more Japanese boys that want to save the poor useless girl with the pink dress than there is Japanese girls that want to save some neckbeard.

first, again it is not about "role reversal", the answer to mario and peach are not peach and mario, that's not the argument.

second, we don't actually know whether Japanese boys were drawn in by the princess saving mission or just the game play.

maybe there was a market survey for this......or maybe there wasn't

also, I'm a bit distressed that you think that our social values are not engineered, that people like tits and ass because they like tits and ass and that we're too blame for having tits and ass because that's what we actually wanted.

I heard on 102.1 the other day that some demographics were taken and that "tit and ass" superbowl commercials dropped down in popularity from previous years. Social preferences change.

They are never singularly developed by the people, it is the marketing machine that fuels human wants. We are not unique and strong snowflakes, humans are easily swayed and manipulated. You see tits and ass and you think that everyone else wants tits and ass and that's what you should want as well and as time goes by you forget to remember which are your own feelings and which are engineered.

 

[Roach]

Yet you just stated that social preferences change. In spite of the abundance of "tits and ass" imploring tits and ass

Imploring? Inferring? Idfk

My point is your points seem to contradict themselves. Are you suggesting we are being engineered away from tits and ass, given this last tally from the super bowl? Perhaps the overlords are prepping for a massive global tits and ass shortage and engineering us to react subconsciously to something we have an abundance of.

Come to think about it lately I've been getting rock hard at the sight of a barrel of oil...

 

[Fork Included]

Yet you just stated that social preferences change. In spite of the abundance of "tits and ass" imploring tits and ass

Imploring? Inferring? Idfk

Yes, preferences change when people start voicing their concerns and stirring the pot. That's how progress happens. Feminists like her are the ones causing a stir and hence we see change.

Personally speaking, i'll admit to the fact that growing up I've had very limited "female education", I couldn't talk to girls properly well into my 20s. My perceptions of "romance and male-female relationships" are easily described by the numerous "feminist" rants. I've changed much since then, and looking back I see how stupid I've acted in certain situations. Hell, my wife is a woman unlike any that I've pursued before, nor do I behave around her the way I behaved around other women when I was younger. (not that I was an asshole or anything, but my understanding was really very basic).

This is why I don't fully disagree with what she's saying, because it's not complete bullshit.

Maybe you guys never had that problem, and grew up around women and were taught to act right naturally and so you never saw it as a problem, but the reality is that plenty of men are NOT like that, and it's them who is being targeted. Also a casual reminder for us isn't unwarranted either.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

Shitty example, nobody cares for tits and ass commercials because they're watching sports, and NFL is quite 'manly' at that. I'd rather watch funny beer commercials, or of course no commercials. The reduction of tits and ass and the introduction of IDIOTS like Katy Perry are the result of this feminist broad and believers like you, fork.

 

[MetalLobster]

Are we going to push this from women in video games to how they are treated in general? The latter is a much more complex issue.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Fork Included]

The reduction of tits and ass and the introduction of IDIOTS like Katy Perry are the result of this feminist broad and believers like you, fork.

I don't actually understand what you mean by that but okay.

all I know about this year's superbowl is that someone made a bad pass.