The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind

[Brades]

Must watch

 

[Steve]

No thats religion

/thread

 

[.44 caliber]

wow, the part about the founding fathers was potent.

 

[Cock]

Watch this as well

Bitcoins are a better monetary system then what's in place right now.

 

[Fork Included]

Brades is all about precious metal investments

i watched your video, then went to the website, all it does is promote an alternate way of saving existing savings...

so you just wait for the collapse and hope to be on top once it happens.

 

[Brades]

Watch this as well


Bitcoins are a better monetary system then what's in place right now.

Watched that a few months ago... good stuff.

The future will be bitcoin or something very similar to it.

 

[$alvador]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/10/19/a-major-global-depression/ shit be for real this time

 

[OG buckshot jr]

I love learning about this kind of shit! I will watch this tonight when I get home from work, thanks for the links/convos, boys!

 

[chaosrealm93]

Must watch

good watch

 

[HappySticks™]

good watch

Last message October 21...

 

[Gatherix]

Alright, time to start a debate here. Or effectively prevent one from starting due to the MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT. Note that I stopped watching at 19 minutes.

To start, the video is made and funded by a company seeking profit through the exchange of gold and silver; the video condemns the modern American monetary system (and the government's supposed autocratic role in that) and promotes the 'freedom' in gold and silver. The company website makes no mention that the owner of said company and the one featured in the video, Mike Maloney, has any educational background in economics, though of course that isn't a requirement for insight and suggesting the video is false based on that premises would be a fallacy. Nevertheless, the video is propaganda. There are plenty of videos equally biased of an opposing view, but they won't seem as acceptable because they don't appeal to the current issues.

Secondly, the national debt is not (currently) a crisis. The video's claim [2:50] that the issuing of bonds "steals prosperity out of the future" by putting the country into debt is ridiculous. Businesses and governments borrow money all the time. Businesses constantly spend more than they have, and it frequently turns incredible profit by utilizing systems like leverage to massively multiply their earnings. Governments too. The video's claim [3:55] that the Federal Reserve's purchase of Treasury Bonds raises the national debt is false; Since they're eliminating the interest they would have to pay to someone else by effectively owing the interest to themselves, they've reduced the debt. They purchase their own bonds (an act called Quantitative Easing) to aid the economy, part of which is injecting currency. If money flows into the economy, the yield of bonds lowers.

Also on the topic of debt, the US owns a lot of debt from other countries too. When you eliminate the debt the US owes itself and subtract the debt it owns from the debt it owes, you get a much smaller number than the current ~$17 trillion (the debt the US owes itself accounts for more than 1/3 of it). And for the other countries that own debt (notably China and Japan), that's not an incredible danger to the US currently. They can't just cash in all that debt at once because bonds can't be spontaneously cashed in. They also invest most of their US Dollars back into the US (in treasury bonds) because if they tried to exchange it for local currency they'd lower the value of the US Dollar and effectively lose lots of money. Plus, they don't have much incentive to exchange it, since the US Dollar is the world's most traded and safest government currency on the planet. Because of that, the US has incredibly cheap credit; it pays extremely low interest on its debt compared to other countries, and it's been getting lower despite Standard & Poor's downgrade (and then upgrade) of the US credit rating. That's because other countries don't want the US to default on their debt either; countries like China and Japan want the US to keep consuming, and investing their US Dollars back into the US does that. And since it's estimated over half of US Dollars circulate outside the US, practically no one wants its value to fall, and they can help ensure that by providing the US with cheap interest and by investing in the US. Which they do.

[3:10] - Not just banks buy bonds, other countries buy nearly the same amount.
[7:20] - Fractional Reserve Lending isn't stealing from the consumer. All the loaning those banks do stimulate the economy (though of course if it isn't controlled then it causes problems, which has been happening a little lately).
[8:30] - The video omits the IOU the borrow has supplied to the bank.
[10:25] - Banks are creating debt, not currency. The whole thing about how all currency supply "vanishes" because the net debt is greater [14:30] isn't true, because debt is not currency, and debt can lose its value. Any debt that's unsecured (e.g. credit cards, medical bills, and treasury bonds) can vanish if the borrow can't pay. That's why the interest on a mortgage is much lower than the interest on a credit card. All government bonds are unsecured debt (that's what most investments are). Countries default on their debt all the time, and that obliterates all the debt and 'currency' from the bonds it issued. Defaulting obviously isn't a good thing for both the investor, who loses all his/her money, and the government who now gets higher interest rates since investing in it isn't as safe, but the debt has no collateral. The US has and can outpay its debt and start having a surplus, the problem happens when the interest on that debt becomes higher, which isn't likely to happen soon (though given the inefficiency of the US government, it's absolutely a long-term problem).
[12:10] - The first income tax was mandated in 1861 to pay for war expenses, which was later succeeded by an income tax in 1894. 1913 was just the year it was amended to the constitution.
[16:00] - That restriction outlined in the constitution only applied to states, no such restriction is on the federal government. Article 1, Section 8 also states the Congress shall have power to: "coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;" "borrow Money on the credit of the United States;" and "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States". The objective was to prevent states from coining their own currency and causing there to be multiple major currencies in the country (since having one major currency greatly aids national economic health).

Lastly, a modern Gold Standard would not be a good thing, for numerous reasons:
~ The prices of gold and silver are removed from their value as commodities, making them a poor currency.
~ Any shock in the gold supply could cause large swings in the value of the US Dollars, which causes all sorts of problems on its own. This was not rare when the Gold Standard was in place; short-term fluctuations in gold supply were common and had drastic effects
~ Perhaps most important, the government couldn't respond to shocks are disruptions in the value of currency. This would make the value of the US Dollar volatile, which adds risk to investments (particularly in the government) and could cause uncontrollable deflationary vortexes that lead to default, which has happened to countries on the Gold Standard in the past.

 

[14bux]

Alright, time to start a debate here. Or effectively prevent one from starting due to the MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT. Note that I stopped watching at 19 minutes.

To start, the video is made and funded by a company seeking profit through the exchange of gold and silver; the video condemns the modern American monetary system (and the government's supposed autocratic role in that) and promotes the 'freedom' in gold and silver. The company website makes no mention that the owner of said company and the one featured in the video, Mike Maloney, has any educational background in economics, though of course that isn't a requirement for insight and suggesting the video is false based on that premises would be a fallacy. Nevertheless, the video is propaganda. There are plenty of videos equally biased of an opposing view, but they won't seem as acceptable because they don't appeal to the current issues.

Secondly, the national debt is not (currently) a crisis. The video's claim [2:50] that the issuing of bonds "steals prosperity out of the future" by putting the country into debt is ridiculous. Businesses and governments borrow money all the time. Businesses constantly spend more than they have, and it frequently turns incredible profit by utilizing systems like leverage to massively multiply their earnings. Governments too. The video's claim [3:55] that the Federal Reserve's purchase of Treasury Bonds raises the national debt is false; Since they're eliminating the interest they would have to pay to someone else by effectively owing the interest to themselves, they've reduced the debt. They purchase their own bonds (an act called Quantitative Easing) to aid the economy, part of which is injecting currency. If money flows into the economy, the yield of bonds lowers.

Also on the topic of debt, the US owns a lot of debt from other countries too. When you eliminate the debt the US owes itself and subtract the debt it owns from the debt it owes, you get a much smaller number than the current ~$17 trillion (the debt the US owes itself accounts for more than 1/3 of it). And for the other countries that own debt (notably China and Japan), that's not an incredible danger to the US currently. They can't just cash in all that debt at once because bonds can't be spontaneously cashed in. They also invest most of their US Dollars back into the US (in treasury bonds) because if they tried to exchange it for local currency they'd lower the value of the US Dollar and effectively lose lots of money. Plus, they don't have much incentive to exchange it, since the US Dollar is the world's most traded and safest government currency on the planet. Because of that, the US has incredibly cheap credit; it pays extremely low interest on its debt compared to other countries, and it's been getting lower despite Standard & Poor's downgrade (and then upgrade) of the US credit rating. That's because other countries don't want the US to default on their debt either; countries like China and Japan want the US to keep consuming, and investing their US Dollars back into the US does that. And since it's estimated over half of US Dollars circulate outside the US, practically no one wants its value to fall, and they can help ensure that by providing the US with cheap interest and by investing in the US. Which they do.

[3:10] - Not just banks buy bonds, other countries buy nearly the same amount.
[7:20] - Fractional Reserve Lending isn't stealing from the consumer. All the loaning those banks do stimulate the economy (though of course if it isn't controlled then it causes problems, which has been happening a little lately).
[8:30] - The video omits the IOU the borrow has supplied to the bank.
[10:25] - Banks are creating debt, not currency. The whole thing about how all currency supply "vanishes" because the net debt is greater [14:30] isn't true, because debt is not currency, and debt can lose its value. Any debt that's unsecured (e.g. credit cards, medical bills, and treasury bonds) can vanish if the borrow can't pay. That's why the interest on a mortgage is much lower than the interest on a credit card. All government bonds are unsecured debt (that's what most investments are). Countries default on their debt all the time, and that obliterates all the debt and 'currency' from the bonds it issued. Defaulting obviously isn't a good thing for both the investor, who loses all his/her money, and the government who now gets higher interest rates since investing in it isn't as safe, but the debt has no collateral. The US has and can outpay its debt and start having a surplus, the problem happens when the interest on that debt becomes higher, which isn't likely to happen soon (though given the inefficiency of the US government, it's absolutely a long-term problem).
[12:10] - The first income tax was mandated in 1861 to pay for war expenses, which was later succeeded by an income tax in 1894. 1913 was just the year it was amended to the constitution.
[16:00] - That restriction outlined in the constitution only applied to states, no such restriction is on the federal government. Article 1, Section 8 also states the Congress shall have power to: "coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;" "borrow Money on the credit of the United States;" and "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States". The objective was to prevent states from coining their own currency and causing there to be multiple major currencies in the country (since having one major currency greatly aids national economic health).

Lastly, a modern Gold Standard would not be a good thing, for numerous reasons:
~ The prices of gold and silver are removed from their value as commodities, making them a poor currency.
~ Any shock in the gold supply could cause large swings in the value of the US Dollars, which causes all sorts of problems on its own. This was not rare when the Gold Standard was in place; short-term fluctuations in gold supply were common and had drastic effects
~ Perhaps most important, the government couldn't respond to shocks are disruptions in the value of currency. This would make the value of the US Dollar volatile, which adds risk to investments (particularly in the government) and could cause uncontrollable deflationary vortexes that lead to default, which has happened to countries on the Gold Standard in the past.

tl;dr
This video is a steaming pile of bullcrap and hypocrisy. (every reason here)

 

[Brades]

We'll see in 15 years from now...

 

[Gatherix]

We'll see in 15 years from now...

I'm not trying to argue that things won't go to hell, just that the video is misleading and somewhat incorrect.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

I agree with Gatherix, however I think videos like this are purposely biased in order to highlight the extreme opposite of all that has been taught so far. There's a lot the general public don't know/aren't supposed to know about things like monetary systems and politics and the associated propaganda put forth by institutions behind these things makes it hard to truly understand. That's why I think videos like the ones in this thread are made by people, knowingly being a little biased, in order for people to understand and to question such things.

 

[Brains Is A Fag]

All in favor of using rocks and weights?

I

 

[vinny paz]

 

[Love and/or Tolerate]

 

[$alvador]

dang, gathertrix dumped cold water on the fear boner i was getting from the apocalyptic financial meltdown scenario.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

dang, gathertrix dumped cold water on the fear boner i was getting from the apocalyptic financial meltdown scenario.

Oh don't worry, it's still coming lol