RTS nub cant pick a race

[Fork Included]

[quote1280844871=Remy]


but then again a factory costs alot of gas while a core only requires minerals big difference when building.

[/quote1280844871]

factory is 100 gas extra, sure, terrans are gas heavy anyway right from the start, which can be offset by a MULE

you sacrifice a bit in early mineral production and catch up later while getting both gas pumps going

the idea is the same regardless, both races have 3 buildings to go before going air, a voidray is also stupid expensive and eats 3 food

even if you get your star port 30-40 seconds later, you can still have enough vikings to fight back by the time their army comes to your doorstep

 

[Remy]

[quote1280845444=Fork Included]
[quote1280844871=Remy]


but then again a factory costs alot of gas while a core only requires minerals big difference when building.

[/quote1280844871]

factory is 100 gas extra, sure, terrans are gas heavy anyway right from the start, which can be offset by a MULE

you sacrifice a bit in early mineral production and catch up later while getting both gas pumps going

the idea is the same regardless, both races have 3 buildings to go before going air, a voidray is also stupid expensive and eats 3 food

even if you get your star port 30-40 seconds later, you can still have enough vikings to fight back by the time their army comes to your doorstep

[/quote1280845444]

still the time i takes for a terrain to get a factory compared to a core is a big difference. although vikings rape void rays...stupid range....

 

[Fork Included]

[quote1280845375=Narf!]
[quote1280844792=Fork Included]
edit for edit, stay tuned

lets see

terran:

barracks
factory
starport - air


protoss

gateway
cybercore (useless building that doesnt actually do anything)
stargate - air


seems pretty fair to me

[/quote1280844792]

I like how you neglected to point out that as soon as you have cybernetics core, you can build Stalkers (ground & air) and Sentries (which can summon a large shield and friend units in it's massive AOE takes reduced ranged damage). With 1 Sentry and 1 Stalker, I can take out a marine drop with the help of probes while Void Rays come out. Same goes for against Void Rays -- uh, minus the use of probes of course...
[/quote1280845375]

well if you want to do it that way, Terran have the quickest anti-air in the business!

yes, marines do shit all vs 6+ void rays

but 10 or so can fight off a 2-3 with no medivack


the marine is the only early game unit with range, whether you wall at ramp or wall at base, properly protected marines are an annoyance to any zerg/toss rusher, marauders make it an even bigger headache.

it can be pretty ass, dont get me wrong, ive had some bad beats to cheap strats

but i always blame my inability to be aggressive early on, which is something i'm working on.

but regardless, go on the b.net forums and scout all the respective sections

you have protoss in the terran boards yelling to nerf reavers, terrans in the protoss boards yelling to nerf voidrays, its all the same crap.

 

[Narf!]

[quote1280845916=Fork Included]
yes, marines do shit all vs 6+ void rays

but 10 or so can fight off a 2-3 with no medivack

the marine is the only early game unit with range, whether you wall at ramp or wall at base, properly protected marines are an annoyance to any zerg/toss rusher, marauders make it an even bigger headache.
[/quote1280845916]
I was just talking to Remy about this in LiveChat. There's no need for Void Rays to go against any marines -- it's stupid. If I was 'toss going VR, I'd just fly around to pick off SCVs and use my mobility to my advantage. Fly around to your ramp and pick off the lone marine coming out or any SCVs trying to build a turret (and if you send marines to protect that, I'll go after your mining SCVs), circle around to pick off an SCV or damage it, micro the VRs with low shields away and let them recharge with the others continue to fly around and disturb your shit -- all the while with more VRs building or other stuff building. Going in a head on clash when you can use mobility to your advantage is dumb of your 'toss opponent.

As for Marauders -- what are they going to do vs VRs? LOL nothing.


EDIT: LOL @ getting Starport 30-40 seconds later. In a harass game that averages 5 minute game times, 30-40 seconds is all the head start needed by the VRs to wipe out a few of your SCVs and to disrupt production. And once you have Vikings out, I'll have been massing Stalkers.

 

[Fork Included]

[quote1280846528=Narf!]
[quote1280845916=Fork Included]
yes, marines do shit all vs 6+ void rays

but 10 or so can fight off a 2-3 with no medivack

the marine is the only early game unit with range, whether you wall at ramp or wall at base, properly protected marines are an annoyance to any zerg/toss rusher, marauders make it an even bigger headache.
[/quote1280845916]
I was just talking to Remy about this in LiveChat. There's no need for Void Rays to go against any marines -- it's stupid. If I was 'toss going VR, I'd just fly around to pick off SCVs and use my mobility to my advantage. Fly around to your ramp and pick off the lone marine coming out or any SCVs trying to build a turret (and if you send marines to protect that, I'll go after your mining SCVs), circle around to pick off an SCV or damage it, micro the VRs with low shields away and let them recharge with the others continue to fly around and disturb your shit -- all the while with more VRs building or other stuff building. Going in a head on clash when you can use mobility to your advantage is dumb of your 'toss opponent.

As for Marauders -- what are they going to do vs VRs? LOL nothing.

[/quote1280846528]

you are QQ'ing about mid game protoss air, and i'm showcasing that a protoss will most likely not rush your ass because they know you're going to hand it to them

knowing this you should build accordingly..

this is where playing a race according to your style comes in, perhaps the modified terran is not your style anymore?

also, even in SC1, you needed an armory after a factory to build a goliath, which was only really good after an upgrade or two :/

really, it has not changed much in terms of build orders and what not

toss still had goons after core, now its stalkers..
hydra den gets you hydras, thats a 2nd building also

goliaths are only available after 3rd building..

what changed?

the way i see it, with the starport producing 4 different types of units, i can see blizzard trying to tell us something, perhaps their power is in the air, wish such a powerful all purpose unit as the viking available off the bat at little cost?

 

[Narf!]

[quote1280847017=Fork Included]
you are QQ'ing about mid game protoss air, and i'm showcasing that a protoss will most likely not rush your ass because they know you're going to hand it to them

knowing this you should build accordingly..

this is where playing a race according to your style comes in, perhaps the modified terran is not your style anymore?

also, even in SC1, you needed an armory after a factory to build a goliath, which was only really good after an upgrade or two :/

really, it has not changed much in terms of build orders and what not

toss still had goons after core, now its stalkers..
hydra den gets you hydras, thats a 2nd building also

goliaths are only available after 3rd building..

what changed?

the way i see it, with the starport producing 4 different types of units, i can see blizzard trying to tell us something, perhaps their power is in the air, wish such a powerful all purpose unit as the viking available off the bat at little cost?
[/quote1280847017]
Well I guess for a match that ends in 5 minutes, you can call it mid game 'toss air.

I'll tell you what has changed:

In SC1, with Stargate, your only flyer is, um, I forgot what it was called, but its air-to-ground attack is equivalent to 2 marines. In SC1, terrans had M&Ms from barracks which Terran players build a few in the early goings anyway so there's nothing to fear in terms of air while armory goes up for goliaths. As for 'goons and 'lisks, I'll have M&M to keep me afloat with tanks (even w/out siege mode researched yet) as long as I bring an SCV to repair it and micro properly.

In SC2, I won't get a Medivac until I get a (yup, you guessed it!) Starport. And even then, it's only 1 and if that goes, it's game over.

 

[Remy]

Fork do you even own the game?

 

[Remy]

[quote1280849094=Narf!]
[quote1280847017=Fork Included]
you are QQ'ing about mid game protoss air, and i'm showcasing that a protoss will most likely not rush your ass because they know you're going to hand it to them

knowing this you should build accordingly..

this is where playing a race according to your style comes in, perhaps the modified terran is not your style anymore?

also, even in SC1, you needed an armory after a factory to build a goliath, which was only really good after an upgrade or two :/

really, it has not changed much in terms of build orders and what not

toss still had goons after core, now its stalkers..
hydra den gets you hydras, thats a 2nd building also

goliaths are only available after 3rd building..

what changed?

the way i see it, with the starport producing 4 different types of units, i can see blizzard trying to tell us something, perhaps their power is in the air, wish such a powerful all purpose unit as the viking available off the bat at little cost?
[/quote1280847017]
Well I guess for a match that ends in 5 minutes, you can call it mid game 'toss air.

I'll tell you what has changed:

In SC1, with Stargate, your only flyer is, um, I forgot what it was called, but its air-to-ground attack is equivalent to 2 marines. In SC1, terrans had M&Ms from barracks which Terran players build a few in the early goings anyway so there's nothing to fear in terms of air while armory goes up for goliaths. As for 'goons and 'lisks, I'll have M&M to keep me afloat with tanks (even w/out siege mode researched yet) as long as I bring an SCV to repair it and micro properly.

In SC2, I won't get a Medivac until I get a (yup, you guessed it!) Starport. And even then, it's only 1 and if that goes, it's game over.
[/quote1280849094]

like i told you in live chat narf they fucked up terran. their air units are total garbage. Banshees, vikings both are useless. although they still arnt as bad as mutas.

btw the old air units were wraiths that also sucked ass. The only thing that worked out well from what ive seen for terrain is marine maurader medivac...everything else just gets raped. including tanks.

 

[iSeize]

i defeated someone in 8 minutes yesterday :3

 

[Narf!]

[quote1280852480=iSeize]
i defeated someone in 8 minutes yesterday :3
[/quote1280852480]
A.I. on easy with cheatcodes don't count as a legit win iSeize.

 

[Shortbus]

[quote1280853572=Fork Included]
[quote1280846528=Narf!]
[quote1280845916=Fork Included]
yes, marines do shit all vs 6+ void rays

but 10 or so can fight off a 2-3 with no medivack

the marine is the only early game unit with range, whether you wall at ramp or wall at base, properly protected marines are an annoyance to any zerg/toss rusher, marauders make it an even bigger headache.
[/quote1280845916]
I was just talking to Remy about this in LiveChat. There's no need for Void Rays to go against any marines -- it's stupid. If I was 'toss going VR, I'd just fly around to pick off SCVs and use my mobility to my advantage. Fly around to your ramp and pick off the lone marine coming out or any SCVs trying to build a turret (and if you send marines to protect that, I'll go after your mining SCVs), circle around to pick off an SCV or damage it, micro the VRs with low shields away and let them recharge with the others continue to fly around and disturb your shit -- all the while with more VRs building or other stuff building. Going in a head on clash when you can use mobility to your advantage is dumb of your 'toss opponent.

As for Marauders -- what are they going to do vs VRs? LOL nothing.

[/quote1280846528]

you are QQ'ing about mid game protoss air, and i'm showcasing that a protoss will most likely not rush your ass because they know you're going to hand it to them

knowing this you should build accordingly..

this is where playing a race according to your style comes in, perhaps the modified terran is not your style anymore?

also, even in SC1, you needed an armory after a factory to build a goliath, which was only really good after an upgrade or two :/

really, it has not changed much in terms of build orders and what not

toss still had goons after core, now its stalkers..
hydra den gets you hydras, thats a 2nd building also

goliaths are only available after 3rd building..

what changed?

the way i see it, with the starport producing 4 different types of units, i can see blizzard trying to tell us something, perhaps their power is in the air, wish such a powerful all purpose unit as the viking available off the bat at little cost?
[/quote1280853572]

Hydra is tier 2 now. You need a lair to make them. Thats a huge change.

 

[Fork Included]

[quote1280854969=Remy]
Fork do you even own the game?
[/quote1280854969]

yes i do, i just havent added anyone yet because i want to change my email first, i didnt know b.net was going to be what it is, so i dont want my personal email for this shit.

 

[Pyro]

narf, 2 turrets by your miners is enough to stop any useful voidray rushes. and aside from that, you should never be beaten by a player rushing voidrays. make 2 reapers and float into their base. the tech is very easy to get them without much risk to early toss (assuming you wall correctly). those 2 reapers will completely rape a toss player who fully rushes to VRs. even semi-rushes (i.e. they have some zealots). without at least a cannon by their probes or some stalkers floating around, you win. if they go to VRs slowly'and get stalkers first/cannons in their base, then you've had time to get a 2nd barracks up with a reactor, and tech to medivacs and stimpack. PLUS those turrets around peons that i keep mentioning are definitely worth it against protoss now that they have viable air units early on.
there are counters and balances in sc2 just as there were in sc1, you just havent learned them yet. you kept telling me that they dumbed the game down and its not as good as the old one. all i've noticed is that sc2 is much more fast-paced than the old game, and they got rid of some units and brought in new ones.
you can say that you dont like the game all you want. but all the balance issues you listed can be countered.

btw iseize, terran ftw! actually i just play them cause they were the first campaign and i havent got off my ass to learn zerg or protoss yet. at heart, im actually one of those old players who thinks you are a total noob unless you pick random. but frankly, i AM a huge noob for now.

 

[Fork Included]

i agree with Pyro (surprise!)

SC2 is a streamlined version of SC1, atleast the multiplayer is.

Blizzard made an excellent job creating TWO games, a single player experience for new comers that know nothing about starcraft.. nice cinematics, achievements, playability, challenges, etc. And an online experience that is primarily geared towards the hard-core SC1 players and addresses all the issues that they wanted fixed.

like i said, many aspecs, while different, are just streamlined for better play.

Also, if you are having difficulties online, then its probably because you got placed high and are playing against people that take this seriously

I got placed into gold league and there is just no rest, everyone is on the gun 100%.

Just takes time to learn, SC2 is a hard game.

 

[Narf!]

[quote1280856940=Pyro]
narf, 2 turrets by your miners is enough to stop any useful voidray rushes. and aside from that, you should never be beaten by a player rushing voidrays. make 2 reapers and float into their base. the tech is very easy to get them without much risk to early toss (assuming you wall correctly). those 2 reapers will completely rape a toss player who fully rushes to VRs. even semi-rushes (i.e. they have some zealots). without at least a cannon by their probes or some stalkers floating around, you win. if they go to VRs slowly'and get stalkers first/cannons in their base, then you've had time to get a 2nd barracks up with a reactor, and tech to medivacs and stimpack. PLUS those turrets around peons that i keep mentioning are definitely worth it against protoss now that they have viable air units early on.
there are counters and balances in sc2 just as there were in sc1, you just havent learned them yet. you kept telling me that they dumbed the game down and its not as good as the old one. all i've noticed is that sc2 is much more fast-paced than the old game, and they got rid of some units and brought in new ones.
you can say that you dont like the game all you want. but all the balance issues you listed can be countered.

btw iseize, terran ftw! actually i just play them cause they were the first campaign and i havent got off my ass to learn zerg or protoss yet. at heart, im actually one of those old players who thinks you are a total noob unless you pick random. but frankly, i AM a huge noob for now.
[/quote1280856940]
No. Tower building is the true noob style of play and I refuse to build turrets -- even now. Two turrets? You build like 6 last I looked at your base. My RTS philosophy has always been: mobile army, micro, and no towers (except for offensive ones). It's treated me well throughout my SC1 and WC3 eras so if I can't make that work in SC2, then it just wasn't meant to be.

 

[Shortbus]

Building turrets is not the newb style. Stop being stubborn. If you have that mindset you will continue to get dominated by void rushes.

 

[Hinouchi]

Learn the new, and come up with whatever works for you. If all the SC1 strategy works in SC2, I wouldn't even buy SC2.

New game, New units, New strategy. Get with the program! =P

 

[Fork Included]

[quote1280861517=Shortbus]
Building turrets is not the newb style. Stop being stubborn. If you have that mindset you will continue to get dominated by void rushes.
[/quote1280861517]

+1

3 turrets in your minerals = failed flyer rush, destroyed observer, pinch detection

also 5 marines + 1 turret is better than no turret

turrets scare players in the early game, they deal massive damage and they dont die easily, esp if they are being repaired.

also, your harassment means no attention at your base (or little attention)

while defending against a harass is easier because you are already in your base..

also if you bother to upgrade early, thats 250 hp with 2 armor and range 8!

 

[Narf!]

Yeah, ok, so I'm about to make a new thread about revoking Hinouchi's TD status...

But seriously, new units = new strategies, using reapers to jump around, marauders to slow down fleeing units, stalkers to blink, vikings to transform, whatever, but turrets are static. where's the strategy in that?

In any case, I've said all I wanted to say about this topic.

 

[Fork Included]

the strategy is that you want a mobile force

terrans are ideally a camp first counter second play style

turrents provide for a safe haven, you have them up, and you can trust them to be there

and if you dont get a chance to use them, well, all the better.