Fork Included
TD Admin
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Rick Perry lololol
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iCe
TD Admin
What does the general population deserve?
They have the OPPOURTUNITY to make what they can. They live here "safe". Spare me their "rights" and freedoms. Mohammed Ali is thought to be a great american hero. The guy went to jail instead of serving his country. Joe Dimaggio and regular Joe Schmoe did their duty when they were called. They deserve all this country can give them not some banker/civil servant/politician. The US just like every other country is going down hill because they let people get away with protesting and reaping off the country because they are "entitled".
iCe
TD Admin
Its going down hill because of the people/congress. First thing to start it off was healthcare bill. Theres just no money to pay for it. Second is the attitude of entitlement.
Government is just bad right now. Its all he said she said, with nothing getting done. Votes = win and thats their attitude.
Occupy McDonalds.
skd_mrk
TD Admin
They deserve to get some sort of rate of return (more than .002% APR) for letting the banks borrow their money only to lend it back to them at 30% APR. Your argument is weak as hell...I say the gov't did some that the expense of the common man that highly benefits the banks and you come back with why would the common people deserve any better. The correct response would be "yeah the banks don't deserve it". The banks could make a profit without the rates being set to zero, just not as large. Instead you think they deserve it because of their virtue (or GASP: because they're entitled)? Yeah right.
People should have to sacrifice on the nation's behalf this would include the 1% you keep referencing. I would gladly pay higher taxes if they weren't being wasted on ensuring that defense contractors and healthcare companies have 30%+ profit margins.
BTW plenty of states have something close to universal healthcare - Hawaii and Massachusetts for example. Do you want to deny some kid from having coverage because his dad works as a janitor for a company that doesn't provide coverage? TONS of companies don't offer any form of coverage. That doesn't make the workers deadbeats. No one claims teachers should get six figures, but they should qualify for the middle class.
AndyDizzle
DARKLY Regular
iCe, liberals are derp. Never argue with a derp. They'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Fork Included
TD Admin
ice and rest,
no one here is arguing against the principles of a capitalistic society, or put another way, "free enterprise."
I’m sure everyone welcomes the opportunity that exists in North America (and many other countries, fyi) where an entrepreneur can take his or her idea and try to create something with it.
However, business owners, leaders, pioneers, innovators, these people make up a very small fraction of the population. If everyone had a brilliant idea that worked, then there wouldn't be anybody left to do the actual work.
The majority of people are quite happy performing the majority of jobs that exists out there.
Take me for instance, i'm an accountant and work for a small firm. I'd like to think that my daily grind demands quite a bit of mental effort and skill, a monkey most certainly can't do my job, and a fresh graduate will most certainly not perform my work at the same level of efficiency as i do. For this, i get paid, not as much as my boss but it's an okay amount of money. I am perfectly happy in this arrangement for a number of personal reasons.
I'm lucky.
Many people currently studying at post-secondary institutions are getting ready to perform these middle-level tasks. Accountants, engineers, writers, lawyers, brick-layers, electricians, painters, architects, etc. This has been the case for a very long time, in fact for as long as "work" existed, people trained to perform that work.
A few things have happened in the last few decades
1. cost of education has soared, people leaving post-secondary institutions on average are far more indebt than the previous generation. The average tuition fee for a Canadian university for a Canadian citizen is around 12K per year (class, books, extra), and that's not counting living expenses. Actually the figure might be even higher. That means that after a 3 year program a person is in debt around 36-40k, and that’s if they are in the regular programs. Lawyers will have probably spent 50-60K by this point.
2. No one will hire a fresh graduate due to the silly catch 22 problem of "requiring experience", i won't elaborate on this as i'm sure you're bright enough to understand it
3. It's almost impossible to find entry level work in your field because either there are no spaces, or that work has been "relocated" to a country far far away
4. People are left scrambling to get any sort of job that they can, which usually pays so little that people end up being stuck in it because they can't save enough to move up
5. remember that debt in point 1? the average person hasn't even put a dent in it, and believe me it's not from a lack of trying
6. assuming all goes reasonably well, it will be 7-8 years before they'll even reach their break point, the average person is probably looking at 10-12 years.
so you're 27-28 and your life has just begun, again, if you're lucky.. ask Leroy how old he is given his current position and income level
i don't quite understand why someone has to be a Liberal to see this as a big pile of shit, and i just outlined for you a "good case scenario"
the average north American is taught from an early age that they should strive to be unique, to do something special, etc, but the job market does not reflect that, at all.
compounded by all this is the sad fact that your government is not bothering to help the INDIVIDUAL, instead they give power to the corporations which in turn dictate how the money they earn is spent, and it's not spent on the well-being of the WORKFORCE which is responsible for any given corporations growth to begin with!
Very few CEO's are the likes of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, most CEO's and board of directors don't create anything, they simply assume power after viciously climbing the ladder of success. Then they proceed to reap the benefits at a rate 100 times greater than the front-line worker and have the audacity to call those below them "lazy".
again, i stress the fact that not everyone is born to be a charismatic leader with vision, you have an idea but you need an engineer to design it for you, a lawyer to process it for you, and a trades person to build it for you, only after this collaborative effort you somehow get 80% of the profit and a year later fire the other 3.
that's bullshit
this is even FURTHER compounded by the silliness that is the stock market and banking industry. Banks existed to store peoples money, in return for this service they charged a little amount and also used their now large capital to invest back into the community that is giving them their money, it was supposed to be a tool for NET SOCIAL PROSPERITY
now money is not even money anymore, it's just a number. Banks and the stock market are no longer making money from investing into real companies, they are speculating, investing into other investments which are invested based on some bleak promise by Joe Blow than in 10 years time something good is going to happen of it. Millions of transactions are made on a daily basis that have NO IMPACT ON OUR SOCIETY IN ANY WAY OR FORM.
and at the end of this silly process 1% of people grow in net worth exponentially while the rest of us "dumb and lazy faggots" should just shut up and keep plowing the fields
to which i say FUCK YOU and KISS MY ASS
no one here is arguing against the principles of a capitalistic society, or put another way, "free enterprise."
I’m sure everyone welcomes the opportunity that exists in North America (and many other countries, fyi) where an entrepreneur can take his or her idea and try to create something with it.
However, business owners, leaders, pioneers, innovators, these people make up a very small fraction of the population. If everyone had a brilliant idea that worked, then there wouldn't be anybody left to do the actual work.
The majority of people are quite happy performing the majority of jobs that exists out there.
Take me for instance, i'm an accountant and work for a small firm. I'd like to think that my daily grind demands quite a bit of mental effort and skill, a monkey most certainly can't do my job, and a fresh graduate will most certainly not perform my work at the same level of efficiency as i do. For this, i get paid, not as much as my boss but it's an okay amount of money. I am perfectly happy in this arrangement for a number of personal reasons.
I'm lucky.
Many people currently studying at post-secondary institutions are getting ready to perform these middle-level tasks. Accountants, engineers, writers, lawyers, brick-layers, electricians, painters, architects, etc. This has been the case for a very long time, in fact for as long as "work" existed, people trained to perform that work.
A few things have happened in the last few decades
1. cost of education has soared, people leaving post-secondary institutions on average are far more indebt than the previous generation. The average tuition fee for a Canadian university for a Canadian citizen is around 12K per year (class, books, extra), and that's not counting living expenses. Actually the figure might be even higher. That means that after a 3 year program a person is in debt around 36-40k, and that’s if they are in the regular programs. Lawyers will have probably spent 50-60K by this point.
2. No one will hire a fresh graduate due to the silly catch 22 problem of "requiring experience", i won't elaborate on this as i'm sure you're bright enough to understand it
3. It's almost impossible to find entry level work in your field because either there are no spaces, or that work has been "relocated" to a country far far away
4. People are left scrambling to get any sort of job that they can, which usually pays so little that people end up being stuck in it because they can't save enough to move up
5. remember that debt in point 1? the average person hasn't even put a dent in it, and believe me it's not from a lack of trying
6. assuming all goes reasonably well, it will be 7-8 years before they'll even reach their break point, the average person is probably looking at 10-12 years.
so you're 27-28 and your life has just begun, again, if you're lucky.. ask Leroy how old he is given his current position and income level
i don't quite understand why someone has to be a Liberal to see this as a big pile of shit, and i just outlined for you a "good case scenario"
the average north American is taught from an early age that they should strive to be unique, to do something special, etc, but the job market does not reflect that, at all.
compounded by all this is the sad fact that your government is not bothering to help the INDIVIDUAL, instead they give power to the corporations which in turn dictate how the money they earn is spent, and it's not spent on the well-being of the WORKFORCE which is responsible for any given corporations growth to begin with!
Very few CEO's are the likes of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, most CEO's and board of directors don't create anything, they simply assume power after viciously climbing the ladder of success. Then they proceed to reap the benefits at a rate 100 times greater than the front-line worker and have the audacity to call those below them "lazy".
again, i stress the fact that not everyone is born to be a charismatic leader with vision, you have an idea but you need an engineer to design it for you, a lawyer to process it for you, and a trades person to build it for you, only after this collaborative effort you somehow get 80% of the profit and a year later fire the other 3.
that's bullshit
this is even FURTHER compounded by the silliness that is the stock market and banking industry. Banks existed to store peoples money, in return for this service they charged a little amount and also used their now large capital to invest back into the community that is giving them their money, it was supposed to be a tool for NET SOCIAL PROSPERITY
now money is not even money anymore, it's just a number. Banks and the stock market are no longer making money from investing into real companies, they are speculating, investing into other investments which are invested based on some bleak promise by Joe Blow than in 10 years time something good is going to happen of it. Millions of transactions are made on a daily basis that have NO IMPACT ON OUR SOCIETY IN ANY WAY OR FORM.
and at the end of this silly process 1% of people grow in net worth exponentially while the rest of us "dumb and lazy faggots" should just shut up and keep plowing the fields
to which i say FUCK YOU and KISS MY ASS
dead mike
TD Member, Legend, Puncher of Faces, Chatbox King
iCe
TD Admin
fork i will respond to all of your points when i have some time .... but one thing i do want to point out is #1... they could have went to community colleges and state university's than going to a "better" school. You make your own bed and now you can sleep in it. It took me 2 years to find a job in my field, so during that time i worked construction/landscaping and electrical. Why? because I have bills. People today feel "entitled" to a good job because they went to school. Fuck out of here. I told one protester that in the park yesterday. Guy had nothing to say
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
Anyone can grow in net worth at any time. If there is a will, there is a way.
Of course the 1% wants us to remain(and become more so) dumb serfs. Which is why these republican slemmos want to abolish the DoE.
You can either cry about the situation or work your ass off to rise above your current social standing.
At the end of the day I don't want to diminish the power and wealth of the 1%. I want to be come one of them(well, one of the upper class, top 1% IS unrealistic).
Fork Included
TD Admin
i'm curious why you two (ice and steve) think crawling through shit should be the only way a person can attain a happy life in this world?
and note that i say happy, not "filthy rich"
most people don't want to be super rich, i'd say that currently a 45-50K salary is more than enough for a single person to have a good life (going off my own experiences),
no one is asking for a 70K job straight out of colledge, but give them SOME job in the field that they were studying in, which there aren't any, and if there are oppenings, they all require experience, derpty derp
why should a person who studied accounting for 3 years go and work for fed-ex to get some "job experience"
leave the fed-ex box throwing jobs for the people who don't want to go to school at all, there is a reason low-skilled jobs exist, they are there to give people with low-skills or small life aspirations a way to generate income.
and note that i say happy, not "filthy rich"
most people don't want to be super rich, i'd say that currently a 45-50K salary is more than enough for a single person to have a good life (going off my own experiences),
no one is asking for a 70K job straight out of colledge, but give them SOME job in the field that they were studying in, which there aren't any, and if there are oppenings, they all require experience, derpty derp
why should a person who studied accounting for 3 years go and work for fed-ex to get some "job experience"
leave the fed-ex box throwing jobs for the people who don't want to go to school at all, there is a reason low-skilled jobs exist, they are there to give people with low-skills or small life aspirations a way to generate income.
AndyDizzle
DARKLY Regular
lol get off your height horse Fork. A lot of those "low skill" jobs you're talking about pay in the "45-50k" range.
"but give them SOME job in the field that they were studying in"
Nobody is entitled to a job (or anything for that matter), it is to be earned. This is such a fundamental concept the no liberal seems to understand.
"but give them SOME job in the field that they were studying in"
Nobody is entitled to a job (or anything for that matter), it is to be earned. This is such a fundamental concept the no liberal seems to understand.
Fork Included
TD Admin
earned? so spending 3-4 years in a post secondary insititution and dumping 30-40 grand is not earning an /entry level/ spot in the field where you studied at?
the whole point of social progress is to make life easier for everyone, this is not liberal thinking, this is forward thinking
let me put it to you another way,
my dad got a masters degree for free and was employed upon graduation, this applied to virtually anyone back in the day, you studied what you liked and you got a position in that field. Why is this a BAD thing, again?
Steve
TD Admin | Bacon
problem is just because you have a degree in a field does not mean you are adequately skilled for that job. Employers have been around the block and know how easy it is to get through college without really learning.
Employers have every right to seek experience AND education when they are investing 40-50k+ a year into a new employee. It isn't as simple as hiring a new graduate and firing them if they don't really know whats going on. Then the company is forced to throw money away into unemployment.
Degrees are there to HELP qualify you for a job nothing more nothing less.
You aren't entitled to shit just because you have spent money and have a piece of paper you liberal puke.
Fork Included
TD Admin
okay, let's run with that and add that as another problem in our system
according to your words educational institutions which take money from people to educate them, are not educating them to a level where employers are willing to hire them
that's a BIG problem, at least if education was free you could make the claim that education didn't matter, but every university and colledge will advertise that "we will give you the skills needed to succeed in the workforce"
so now the youth of our nations are being duped even more, and you think this is OKAY?
Large educational corporations that take money from people and don't deliver a quality product, this is one of the big issues with the whole Occupy movements!
i guess this is why RIck Perry wan'ts to get rid of education, let people fend for themselves, like they did 6000 years ago, that's what i call progress!!
according to your words educational institutions which take money from people to educate them, are not educating them to a level where employers are willing to hire them
that's a BIG problem, at least if education was free you could make the claim that education didn't matter, but every university and colledge will advertise that "we will give you the skills needed to succeed in the workforce"
so now the youth of our nations are being duped even more, and you think this is OKAY?
Large educational corporations that take money from people and don't deliver a quality product, this is one of the big issues with the whole Occupy movements!
i guess this is why RIck Perry wan'ts to get rid of education, let people fend for themselves, like they did 6000 years ago, that's what i call progress!!