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Raising Minimum Wage
- Thread starter MetalLobster
- Start date
Fork Included
TD Admin
minimum wage is a tricky thing
on the one hand, higher minimum wages ensure that people have enough money to support themselves
on the other hand, minimum wage means people get paid just for showing up, a very poor motivator.
furthermore, minimum wage would only improve the standard of living if prices stayed the same, but what will probably happen is that the employers will simply raise prices on their stuffs to maintain the same profit margins and so we're all back to ground zero.
a better solution is to tax all the companies something like 80% on their economic profit (profit after ALL corporate expnses, including payrol, R&D, future invesment, etc) and then pump that money directly back into the community in the form of free schooling, free transportation, free parking, etc etc etc.
So instead of requiring people to spend more money, they live in an environment where they simply spend less, so they require less, and everyone is happy.
but instead, corproations hold on to their profits and only pay taxes after expenses, while regular folk pay taxes before expenses, and the money our government gets is wasted because the people in charge are the same greedy motherfuckers in charge of the corporations. :) :)
on the one hand, higher minimum wages ensure that people have enough money to support themselves
on the other hand, minimum wage means people get paid just for showing up, a very poor motivator.
furthermore, minimum wage would only improve the standard of living if prices stayed the same, but what will probably happen is that the employers will simply raise prices on their stuffs to maintain the same profit margins and so we're all back to ground zero.
a better solution is to tax all the companies something like 80% on their economic profit (profit after ALL corporate expnses, including payrol, R&D, future invesment, etc) and then pump that money directly back into the community in the form of free schooling, free transportation, free parking, etc etc etc.
So instead of requiring people to spend more money, they live in an environment where they simply spend less, so they require less, and everyone is happy.
but instead, corproations hold on to their profits and only pay taxes after expenses, while regular folk pay taxes before expenses, and the money our government gets is wasted because the people in charge are the same greedy motherfuckers in charge of the corporations. :) :)
Ron Swanson
TD Member
Fork has a good alternate solution.
Raising the minimum wage doesn't really solve problems within the economy. Sure people will have higher discretionary income but that's only for the low income earners (aka those who are affected by a minimum wage increase).
As Fork said, companies labour expenses will go up and in order for them to maintain profits they will most likely be increasing the prices of their services/products.
Its all in how taxes are played out. Taxes are great so long as they are being used for the better good and as we all know, there are notes of corruption here and there.
OH WELLS!
Raising the minimum wage doesn't really solve problems within the economy. Sure people will have higher discretionary income but that's only for the low income earners (aka those who are affected by a minimum wage increase).
As Fork said, companies labour expenses will go up and in order for them to maintain profits they will most likely be increasing the prices of their services/products.
Its all in how taxes are played out. Taxes are great so long as they are being used for the better good and as we all know, there are notes of corruption here and there.
OH WELLS!
Glocky
Drinking your tears
Not only is this petition to raise the minimum wage again, but it is for regular increases.
"Urge your MPP to support a minimum wage increase to $14, with regular increases with the cost of living."
Just to put it into proportion, if minimum wage is $14/hr and someone, even working at McDonald's, works full-time of 37.5 hours a week for a year, they will make $27,300 before all deductions or $29,120 for a 40 hour week. The first $10,822 for federal tax and $9,405 for Ontario tax are exempted.
There is much debate between conservative (not political Conservative) and social think-tanks of what the poverty line or low income amount should be.
Independent to that, and the inflation example from Fork, if minimum wage is set too high, there is little incentive to educate, innovate or to be entrepreneurial, all things that help a province or country.
Is $14/hr too high? Too low? Just right? I haven't the expertise to determine nor the experience (I have never worked for min. wage; almost worked for McDonald's because my dad forced me to apply but they said I would have no incentive to work because they paid min. wage of $3.65/hr and I had just finished working the summer for $8/hr), it's a difficult topic... I'd also like to see a flat income/profit tax applied but that is also problematic to set appropriately and apply.
"Urge your MPP to support a minimum wage increase to $14, with regular increases with the cost of living."
Just to put it into proportion, if minimum wage is $14/hr and someone, even working at McDonald's, works full-time of 37.5 hours a week for a year, they will make $27,300 before all deductions or $29,120 for a 40 hour week. The first $10,822 for federal tax and $9,405 for Ontario tax are exempted.
There is much debate between conservative (not political Conservative) and social think-tanks of what the poverty line or low income amount should be.
Independent to that, and the inflation example from Fork, if minimum wage is set too high, there is little incentive to educate, innovate or to be entrepreneurial, all things that help a province or country.
Is $14/hr too high? Too low? Just right? I haven't the expertise to determine nor the experience (I have never worked for min. wage; almost worked for McDonald's because my dad forced me to apply but they said I would have no incentive to work because they paid min. wage of $3.65/hr and I had just finished working the summer for $8/hr), it's a difficult topic... I'd also like to see a flat income/profit tax applied but that is also problematic to set appropriately and apply.
Ghett0
DARKLY Regular
I don't see how this does any good.
Most businesses have a set labour cost / target as percentage of sales / profit. Raising minimum wage won't alter that target, all it will do is mean that less people will have to do more work. This will eliminate jobs, possibly jack up costs and prices, and will make it increasingly difficult for mom-and-pop shops and start up businesses remain competitive.
Horrible idea. This is either an ingenius attempt by corporate interests to force their competition into ruin or a misguided and naive attempt by leftist granolas to "make things better for students".
Economic fail.
Edit / Follow - Up: Oh, and let's not forget that our province is fuckin poor and has been economically failing ever since the LAST minimum wage increase. I believe that less government is good government. The market will set the value of it's own wages. Those companies who can't afford to o are unwilling to pay competitive wages will fall behind or get left behind. Superior workers seek out superior wages. Inferior workers settle for inferior wages.
(To prevent the argument before it starts, that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who gets paid more is better at their job than their lesser-paid competitors, but if I have a choice between working for the Red Company and the Blue Company and the Blue company pays me 20% more, I would be failing at capitalism to work for the Red Company, thus making me "Inferior" in that I am incapable of recognizing my own worth in a free market and maximizing my potential economic yield. There may be a case-by-case opportunity cost involved, say working close to home or flexible hours that would provide other benefits, but all other things being equal, if you haven't got the nuts to go out and get the big pay bcheque, then in the eyes of the free market, you don't deserve it.)
I have a monster rant about how much the cry babies who come up with these ideas pisses me off. Read at your own risk. It's in the spoiler below. I know people will just qq about my wall of text otherwise so if you don't like long posts, then don't bother reading it.
Most businesses have a set labour cost / target as percentage of sales / profit. Raising minimum wage won't alter that target, all it will do is mean that less people will have to do more work. This will eliminate jobs, possibly jack up costs and prices, and will make it increasingly difficult for mom-and-pop shops and start up businesses remain competitive.
Horrible idea. This is either an ingenius attempt by corporate interests to force their competition into ruin or a misguided and naive attempt by leftist granolas to "make things better for students".
Economic fail.
Edit / Follow - Up: Oh, and let's not forget that our province is fuckin poor and has been economically failing ever since the LAST minimum wage increase. I believe that less government is good government. The market will set the value of it's own wages. Those companies who can't afford to o are unwilling to pay competitive wages will fall behind or get left behind. Superior workers seek out superior wages. Inferior workers settle for inferior wages.
(To prevent the argument before it starts, that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who gets paid more is better at their job than their lesser-paid competitors, but if I have a choice between working for the Red Company and the Blue Company and the Blue company pays me 20% more, I would be failing at capitalism to work for the Red Company, thus making me "Inferior" in that I am incapable of recognizing my own worth in a free market and maximizing my potential economic yield. There may be a case-by-case opportunity cost involved, say working close to home or flexible hours that would provide other benefits, but all other things being equal, if you haven't got the nuts to go out and get the big pay bcheque, then in the eyes of the free market, you don't deserve it.)
I have a monster rant about how much the cry babies who come up with these ideas pisses me off. Read at your own risk. It's in the spoiler below. I know people will just qq about my wall of text otherwise so if you don't like long posts, then don't bother reading it.
This idea screams of the cry-baby C-minus University graduate who can't compete in the labour market and is being crushed by the interest on their student loan. With the cry of the sore loser (IE "It's not fair"; no one ever said life was and to ask government to bubble wrap your existence is to unduly punish the A+ student for your inability to achieve) this reeks of the naive and thoughtless students who plowed forward to get their degrees, taking on load of debt that they drank and smoked away on their English degree, then their teacher's degree rather than growing a pair and getting a REAL education to provide them with REAL opportunities on the hope that their sob story will promise them a job.
It reeks of this false sense of entitlement that permeates our society and every time we capitulate to this "it's not fair" temper tantrum of Adult Children who want sympathy and a do-over for their wasted lives and failed adolescence / young adulthood, they will ultimately eliminate MORE jobs, cost our economy MORE opportunity to expand through innovation by forcing us to incur MORE debt and alleviate the pain of facing the consequences of their own poor decision making by destroying the future of their children with increased debt loads, wasted opportunities, and what I like to call "Cry baby politics".
Spare the rod, spoil the child. The dick you get in your ass you deserve because you didn't have the stones to be the one doing the fucking rather than bending over like a bitch to bite the pillow and cry about how "it's not fair".
No, life isn't fair. Never has been, never will be.
"This world is a will to power, and nothing besides." Friedrich Nietszche
There is no sympathy for the careless, and I'll be damned if I sign some retarded petition that will rob my nephews and my niece of their future to provide false comforts and bail out money for the every-day moron who is neither willing to work and compete to reach their success or accept the poverty and mediocrity that their lack of talent, ingenuity and work ethic has justly earned them.
We are all architects of our own destiny, and if you don't like your lot in life, then quit crying about it and signing stupid fuckin petitions to bail you out of it and WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT IN LIFE! If people spent more time working to get ahead rather than crying about how life isn't fair, we wouldn't need to sign these stupid fuckin petitions. We would be too busy WINNING AT LIFE!
/rant complete.
Apologies to anyone who is offended by this tirade, but I can't fuckin stand cry baby politics and people who want to take the easy way out instead of working to get ahead. If you want the easy way out, tie a noose and take a ride on the "It's not fair" train all the way to hell. I'll be happy to sodomize you for eternity once I get there, but I have far too much WINNING to do before I join you.
Occupy my fuckin ball sack, whiny granola cunts. Open a fuckin store and sell socks. Make pizza for a living. Be an entrepreneur. Fuck, sell drugs or your ass if you have to (Prostitutes don't pay taxes). But don't fuck up the economy any more than it already has been fucked up by crying about it to your MPP for a bigger handout. At least the junkie in the street who asks me for a smoke or some change has the balls to look me in the eye when they beg.
Reagonimics proved that this twisted way of thinking doesn't work and the people who think it does are idiots who think there is this bottomless pit of money out there somewhere that we can draw on to bail out every pussy who cries loud enough to get some. That bottomless pit of money is called DEBT and it makes you a fucking slave. If you're dumb enough to live off of debt, than you deserve your slavery. You can blame it on the world all you please, but you are only a slave to your own recklessness and stupidity.
Get a second job or stfu IMO. If one pay cheque isn't cutting it for you, then earn a second one. If your job doesn't pay you enough then find a better paying one. The solutions are out there. People are just too fuckin lazy to take action and take the risks necessary to capitalize on those opportunities, and the ones who don't capitalize on their opportunities don't deserve the fruits of that success. Fuckin babies. If you would have taken an economics class or an accounting class instead of Art or Drama in high school, you'd know these things already.
It reeks of this false sense of entitlement that permeates our society and every time we capitulate to this "it's not fair" temper tantrum of Adult Children who want sympathy and a do-over for their wasted lives and failed adolescence / young adulthood, they will ultimately eliminate MORE jobs, cost our economy MORE opportunity to expand through innovation by forcing us to incur MORE debt and alleviate the pain of facing the consequences of their own poor decision making by destroying the future of their children with increased debt loads, wasted opportunities, and what I like to call "Cry baby politics".
Spare the rod, spoil the child. The dick you get in your ass you deserve because you didn't have the stones to be the one doing the fucking rather than bending over like a bitch to bite the pillow and cry about how "it's not fair".
No, life isn't fair. Never has been, never will be.
"This world is a will to power, and nothing besides." Friedrich Nietszche
There is no sympathy for the careless, and I'll be damned if I sign some retarded petition that will rob my nephews and my niece of their future to provide false comforts and bail out money for the every-day moron who is neither willing to work and compete to reach their success or accept the poverty and mediocrity that their lack of talent, ingenuity and work ethic has justly earned them.
We are all architects of our own destiny, and if you don't like your lot in life, then quit crying about it and signing stupid fuckin petitions to bail you out of it and WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT IN LIFE! If people spent more time working to get ahead rather than crying about how life isn't fair, we wouldn't need to sign these stupid fuckin petitions. We would be too busy WINNING AT LIFE!
/rant complete.
Apologies to anyone who is offended by this tirade, but I can't fuckin stand cry baby politics and people who want to take the easy way out instead of working to get ahead. If you want the easy way out, tie a noose and take a ride on the "It's not fair" train all the way to hell. I'll be happy to sodomize you for eternity once I get there, but I have far too much WINNING to do before I join you.
Occupy my fuckin ball sack, whiny granola cunts. Open a fuckin store and sell socks. Make pizza for a living. Be an entrepreneur. Fuck, sell drugs or your ass if you have to (Prostitutes don't pay taxes). But don't fuck up the economy any more than it already has been fucked up by crying about it to your MPP for a bigger handout. At least the junkie in the street who asks me for a smoke or some change has the balls to look me in the eye when they beg.
Reagonimics proved that this twisted way of thinking doesn't work and the people who think it does are idiots who think there is this bottomless pit of money out there somewhere that we can draw on to bail out every pussy who cries loud enough to get some. That bottomless pit of money is called DEBT and it makes you a fucking slave. If you're dumb enough to live off of debt, than you deserve your slavery. You can blame it on the world all you please, but you are only a slave to your own recklessness and stupidity.
Get a second job or stfu IMO. If one pay cheque isn't cutting it for you, then earn a second one. If your job doesn't pay you enough then find a better paying one. The solutions are out there. People are just too fuckin lazy to take action and take the risks necessary to capitalize on those opportunities, and the ones who don't capitalize on their opportunities don't deserve the fruits of that success. Fuckin babies. If you would have taken an economics class or an accounting class instead of Art or Drama in high school, you'd know these things already.
OG buckshot jr
TD Admin
I think minimum wage is already too high. Instead of constantly raising minimum wage, I think there need to be some laws put into place that prevent companies from getting rid of all full timers and hiring only part-timers (I call it "The Walmart Model"). This, I believe is what's really killing our economy. Well, that and paying for all the old and dying pakies to come here and change our laws, but that's another story.
I know far too many educated people who are not working in their field/earning very much money at all.
I know far too many educated people who are not working in their field/earning very much money at all.
Ghett0
DARKLY Regular
That's a symptom of the "Spend our way out of it" mentality. Well, part of it. Our post-secondary education system is ass-backwards. I know a lot of teachers who can't find work, but if you analyze why that is, they got Uni degrees that would not lead to jobs, so they went to teacher's college and flooded the job market with people who are teachers by default because their plan on what to do with their post-secondary education sucked ass.
Which is why my nephews have retarded fuckin teachers who, when presented with simple problems that any self-respecting educator would have a solution to, they bitch and complain and try to make excuses about how they are not responsible for or properly equipped to deal with a child in kindergarten who has food allergies (for example) because they were piss poor students who make piss poor teachers and only got hired because of nepotism rather than genuine qualifications or merits.
There is a tonne of work out there in trades like electricians or plumbers, for example, but everyone wants to sit on their ass and get fat for a living instead of working, so the people who are willing to work with their hands make a mint while the people who are waiting for a ticket on the gravy train get to serve me my coffee while crying about how the government did them wrong because their degree in Feminine Studies didn't get them a career as a professional lesbian or whatever the fuck else they thought that $40,000 education would get them.
(Then again, Electricians also exploit interns for free labour, but are loathe to take on apprentices and refuse to give them the hours they require to get licensed because, due to the huge shortage of certified electricians, their wages are through the roof and they have work lined up for 6 months without even having to look for it, and if they flooded the market with new electricians, all that would change in a hurry.)
Scarcity creates value. If you're willing to do the work no one else wants to do, there's a fuck load of work AND money out there for you. If you want to do what everyone else is doing, though, you better be able to do it better than everyone else, or you'll be flipping burgers and serving coffee to pay off the interest on your educational debts.
It's a vicious circle, but as long as Post Secondary Education is privatized, there is no social impetus for change. There is a tried, tested and true method to make things change, though. "Kick `em in the wallet." If kids stopped blindly mortgaging their future adulthood away on that $40,000 piece of paper because "They have to" then things might change. If people keep getting "Personal interest degrees" like English Literature, or Women's Studies or God knows what else that has no real, practical application to our society then we're just going to keep spinning our wheels economically and watching politicians win elections by giving dumb ass students hand outs, "Loan forgiveness" promises, and promising "Higher minimum wage" so they can make $14/hour to have a University degree and be horrible at making my cup of coffee instead of $10/hour.
But, since their disappointment is with the fact that they make coffee moreso than their wage, then 5 years from now, they'll want $18 to be useless instead of $10.
And so, they keep fucking their way out of the HIV, one retarded young adult at a time.
Welcome to North America. Land of the Fail and Home of the AIDS
OG buckshot jr
TD Admin
I see your point about flooding the market, but I'm referring to people who have, for various examples, good finance degrees, marketing, etc. They're not the typical "bachelor of arts" bullshit. It's just tough to get anywhere now-a-days. I look at my own industry (IT), and it's just going in the shitter. Luckily for me, I've got a plan and an education to get me there. The others? Not so lucky...
Ghett0
DARKLY Regular
That's true. Ottawa flooded the market with IT grads in the late 90s because of the big Nortel contracts and this sub contractor JDS Uniphase who were hired to fulfill said contract. The low level employees got $14/hour, which was a small fortune back then, and they thought they had it made. They thought wrong. It was a contract. Once the contract was fulfilled, they all got laid off and there were tonnes of cheap cars to be had as people who thought they were ballers for life had to sell their freshly leased cars because now they were making.... what, $8.25 was the old min. wage?
insert monster rant here.
Marketing is a reckless degree. A good B. Com is a ticket to infinite riches if you work for it. (My brother is considered one of the top 5 accountants in Canada and has all the accolades to prove it. Top 30 under 30, top 40 under 40, etc...) When he was teaching the Financial Management summer course (for all the people who failed it the first time around), he had a bit of a head butt with the brass at Carleton because he wasn't marking to the curve and, essentially, failing more people than they wanted.
His argument was simple. "Look, this is the stuff YOU NEED TO KNOW in the workforce. I'm not going to lie to these kids or jeopardize my own reputation by giving them marks they didn't earn to mark to the curve, because if I do, when they are studying to become C.A.s, they're going to get their asses handed to them, and I don't want people in my industry saying "Who is the idiot who gave this guy a B + in Financial Management?" and seeing my name next to it. If they can't figure out how to do this shit right, then I'm not giving them a grade that says they can."
He doesn't teach this course anymore because A) he makes enough money to not need to B) with 7 kids and as a CFO, free time is at a premium and better spent playing with the little ones than it is listening to adult children try to weasel and cry their way into marks they don't earn.
My brother is part of the exception because we were lucky enough to have High School teachers who gave us the brutal truth and we were smart enough to accept it for what it is. My brother never WANTED to be an accountant, he wanted to be a musician. He realized, however, that the odds of being able to afford a good life as a musician were shit and the odds of being able to afford a good life AND the ability to afford an expensive hobby like music were a lot better as an accountant.
After all, you can't get fucked out of your fair share of the money when you're the one counting it and protecting it's profitability, now can you?
The average Canadian doesn't think like my brother did. They think "Oh, I want to be a musician, so I'm going to spend 4 years and $40,000 to learn about music and playing guitar so I can be a musician." Then, reality sets in and they realize there are about 4,000 professions in music in the entire country and so they end up working at Star Bucks and signing stupid fucking petitions to raise the price per hour of making my latte to $15 / hour when they deserve to make $8 + tips IF they can figure out how to make a cup of coffee that doesn't taste like shit.
I think EVERYONE should have to work in a restaurant for at least 6 months of before the age of 25. My old Kitchen Manager is my first reference on every application because I slaved my ass off for him for 2 years for garbage money and went from being a dish washer hauling garbage 8 hours a day to running a $10,000 dinner rush at the cleanest Moxie's in Ontario at the time. When our regional manager left his fiancee with the $15,000 tits with me for a week to teach her the menu while he was off at the manager's retreat in Mexico, I realized that what I learned in that kitchen was more marketable than 80% of the degrees my friends were going into debt to acquire.
In short, I learned how to work my fuckin ass off under pressure, start at the bottom and make my way to the top by EARNING it rather than by demanding it, and by being nice to my colleagues while I was at it while getting paid garbage, if only to make my own life easier as well as that of my co-workers. That reference gets me jobs that my friends with degrees can't get because work ethic, dedication and determination are transferable skills in EVERY industry.
When I left that place, I was running their busiest dinner rushes for $9.50 an hour, and to this day, my kitchen manager's greatest regret is not paying me the $10 it would have taken to keep me, especially when the lazy, useless fucks he was paying $12 an hour took over for me and did a piss poor job of replacing me.
I'm sure your buddies in Finance (assuming they had decent grades and didn't float / cheat their way through their degree) could find PLENTY of work IF
If they were willing to leave Toronto...
if they were willing to get MORE education and go for their CGA or their CA
If they got better grades
If they were willing to intern and work for an opportunity
If
If
If
We are the "but" generation.
I could work here ...
but I don't want to
But I don't get paid enough
but I don't like the people
But it's too much work
But that's tough shit for you. Enjoy unemployment, asswipes.
I didn't LIKE being a dishwasher.
I didn't LIKE hauling garbage.
I didn't LIKE going home soaking wet and smelling like shit at 1 AM 6 days a week
I didn't LIKE working weekends.
I didn't LIKE burning myself
I didn't LIKE getting treated like shit by ignorant assholes I had to work with
I didn't LIKE scrubbing grease off of ceilings and bleaching the floors
I didn't LIKE being the one who had to stay late for cleaning audits
But I did all these things and more because that's what it takes to be successful in this world.
And if you apply that kind of an attitude to ANYTHING in this world, be it your education or your workplace or looking for a job, you will ALWAYS find an opportunity to succeed, and if you work at it, you will succeed in that opportunity and capitalize.
I have an uncle who used to be a janitor in Toronto. He got sponsored by an executive at Bruce Power because he put so much dedication to scrubbing the corporate shitters clean that one of the executives made an example of him by telling his underlings "Every time I walk into this washroom, my toilet is sparkling." He makes about $80K a year now working at the Chalk River facility, was trained in how nuclear reactors work, and is, essentially, a real-life Homer Simpson and in charge of Safety Administration all because he impressed his boss by working hard and taking pride in a shitty job cleaning toilets.
You make your own opportunities in this world by virtue of your work ethic and your dedication to success. If a man who BARELY graduated high school can be transformed into a Safety Adminstrator at a Nuclear Refinement facility responsible for the manufacture of 45% of the medical sterilization isotopes IN THE WORLD (Molybdennum ### if I recall correctly) by virtue of scrubbing shitters sparkling clean day in and day out, then there is no excuse for ANYONE to fail in life unless they are too proud, too lazy or too spoiled to earn a living by working hard and having a positive attitude while they do it.
His argument was simple. "Look, this is the stuff YOU NEED TO KNOW in the workforce. I'm not going to lie to these kids or jeopardize my own reputation by giving them marks they didn't earn to mark to the curve, because if I do, when they are studying to become C.A.s, they're going to get their asses handed to them, and I don't want people in my industry saying "Who is the idiot who gave this guy a B + in Financial Management?" and seeing my name next to it. If they can't figure out how to do this shit right, then I'm not giving them a grade that says they can."
He doesn't teach this course anymore because A) he makes enough money to not need to B) with 7 kids and as a CFO, free time is at a premium and better spent playing with the little ones than it is listening to adult children try to weasel and cry their way into marks they don't earn.
My brother is part of the exception because we were lucky enough to have High School teachers who gave us the brutal truth and we were smart enough to accept it for what it is. My brother never WANTED to be an accountant, he wanted to be a musician. He realized, however, that the odds of being able to afford a good life as a musician were shit and the odds of being able to afford a good life AND the ability to afford an expensive hobby like music were a lot better as an accountant.
After all, you can't get fucked out of your fair share of the money when you're the one counting it and protecting it's profitability, now can you?
The average Canadian doesn't think like my brother did. They think "Oh, I want to be a musician, so I'm going to spend 4 years and $40,000 to learn about music and playing guitar so I can be a musician." Then, reality sets in and they realize there are about 4,000 professions in music in the entire country and so they end up working at Star Bucks and signing stupid fucking petitions to raise the price per hour of making my latte to $15 / hour when they deserve to make $8 + tips IF they can figure out how to make a cup of coffee that doesn't taste like shit.
I think EVERYONE should have to work in a restaurant for at least 6 months of before the age of 25. My old Kitchen Manager is my first reference on every application because I slaved my ass off for him for 2 years for garbage money and went from being a dish washer hauling garbage 8 hours a day to running a $10,000 dinner rush at the cleanest Moxie's in Ontario at the time. When our regional manager left his fiancee with the $15,000 tits with me for a week to teach her the menu while he was off at the manager's retreat in Mexico, I realized that what I learned in that kitchen was more marketable than 80% of the degrees my friends were going into debt to acquire.
In short, I learned how to work my fuckin ass off under pressure, start at the bottom and make my way to the top by EARNING it rather than by demanding it, and by being nice to my colleagues while I was at it while getting paid garbage, if only to make my own life easier as well as that of my co-workers. That reference gets me jobs that my friends with degrees can't get because work ethic, dedication and determination are transferable skills in EVERY industry.
When I left that place, I was running their busiest dinner rushes for $9.50 an hour, and to this day, my kitchen manager's greatest regret is not paying me the $10 it would have taken to keep me, especially when the lazy, useless fucks he was paying $12 an hour took over for me and did a piss poor job of replacing me.
I'm sure your buddies in Finance (assuming they had decent grades and didn't float / cheat their way through their degree) could find PLENTY of work IF
If they were willing to leave Toronto...
if they were willing to get MORE education and go for their CGA or their CA
If they got better grades
If they were willing to intern and work for an opportunity
If
If
If
We are the "but" generation.
I could work here ...
but I don't want to
But I don't get paid enough
but I don't like the people
But it's too much work
But that's tough shit for you. Enjoy unemployment, asswipes.
I didn't LIKE being a dishwasher.
I didn't LIKE hauling garbage.
I didn't LIKE going home soaking wet and smelling like shit at 1 AM 6 days a week
I didn't LIKE working weekends.
I didn't LIKE burning myself
I didn't LIKE getting treated like shit by ignorant assholes I had to work with
I didn't LIKE scrubbing grease off of ceilings and bleaching the floors
I didn't LIKE being the one who had to stay late for cleaning audits
But I did all these things and more because that's what it takes to be successful in this world.
And if you apply that kind of an attitude to ANYTHING in this world, be it your education or your workplace or looking for a job, you will ALWAYS find an opportunity to succeed, and if you work at it, you will succeed in that opportunity and capitalize.
I have an uncle who used to be a janitor in Toronto. He got sponsored by an executive at Bruce Power because he put so much dedication to scrubbing the corporate shitters clean that one of the executives made an example of him by telling his underlings "Every time I walk into this washroom, my toilet is sparkling." He makes about $80K a year now working at the Chalk River facility, was trained in how nuclear reactors work, and is, essentially, a real-life Homer Simpson and in charge of Safety Administration all because he impressed his boss by working hard and taking pride in a shitty job cleaning toilets.
You make your own opportunities in this world by virtue of your work ethic and your dedication to success. If a man who BARELY graduated high school can be transformed into a Safety Adminstrator at a Nuclear Refinement facility responsible for the manufacture of 45% of the medical sterilization isotopes IN THE WORLD (Molybdennum ### if I recall correctly) by virtue of scrubbing shitters sparkling clean day in and day out, then there is no excuse for ANYONE to fail in life unless they are too proud, too lazy or too spoiled to earn a living by working hard and having a positive attitude while they do it.
It sounds cliche, but hard work never goes out of style, and you won't find an employer in the world who doesn't want an employee who works hard, has self-imposed standards of excellence, and brings a positive attitude to the table, day after day. Whether you're an accountant, a university professor, a dishwasher, a janitor, or a nuclear technician, that simple recipe will lead to #WIN time after time. Having been a manager in MANY walks of life, I can tell you that all the talent in the world doesn't mean a God damn thing if all you're gonna do is bitch, moan and drag you ass, only doing as much as you have to to get by.
I couldn't fire those fuckers fast enough, and I never felt bad about it when I did and I never will. The only person who has a right to complain in my workplace is the person who does the job better than EVERYONE else, and that person is too busy working to bitch about much, so when he or she DOES complain, smart bosses will always listen. When I find myself in a workplace full of useless fucks who bitch more than they work (like working in the government, which is living hell) regardless of the wage, I am always looking for a new job where I can know that I will be rewarded for hauling ass rather than having to kiss ass and take shit that isn't mine all so I can have a thumb up my ass and get fat and useless to collect an easy pay cheque.
The beauty of a shitty economy is that it's a buyers market as far as employers are concerned. Work hard and enjoy it or
My only regret is that it's so fuckin hard to find an employer who has the balls to fire lazy cunts, because I'd rather do the work for 3 and get paid 30% more than have to watch someone do a fraction of the work I do in a day and have to listen to them cry about it.
Yeah yeah, I know it's a long ass rant but if you're on the clock and have nothing better to do, then why complain? There are worse fates than getting paid serious cheddar to read about me bitching about the uselessness of the average Canadian worker.
MetalLobster
TD Admin
Wow, this blew up more than I thought.
Anyway, my first thought when I got sent this is that if min. wages goes up, so will the price of goods and in time, will probably have the same issue as the petition states. More importantly however, small businesses will have more trouble competing against the more established ones. So, what if we got rid of minimum wage? That's a scary thought, considering that some businesses don't really compete with each other, but collectively determine the price behind closed doors (I'm looking at you, Rogers Wireless, Bell Mobility and Telus).
Anyway, my first thought when I got sent this is that if min. wages goes up, so will the price of goods and in time, will probably have the same issue as the petition states. More importantly however, small businesses will have more trouble competing against the more established ones. So, what if we got rid of minimum wage? That's a scary thought, considering that some businesses don't really compete with each other, but collectively determine the price behind closed doors (I'm looking at you, Rogers Wireless, Bell Mobility and Telus).
Ghett0
DARKLY Regular
Minimum wage is not unlike a union. Not a bad idea in times of duress and in the short term, but over the long term, it can be as much of a pain in the ass as it is a help. Unless you work in an environment where your health is constantly in jeopardy, I think Unions are a bigger pain in the ass than they are worth. Minimum wage is a great idea to protect us from being unfairly exploited, but a set shit wage is not gonna make a douche prick of a boss who is looking to exploit you stop exploiting you. It just puts a little hurdle in the way of his exploitation, that's all.
I don't have the exact figures to support the argument, but the unemployment rates went through the roof since minimum wage was set at $10/hour.
Higher min. wage will create more unemployment, which will create greater strain on our tax dollars via EI and Welfare, will likely reduce tax incomes, drive up inflation, cranking up the cost of goods and services. Big business will survive, passing the increased cost on to the consumer. Small businesses will fold because they can't afford to hire the people they need to succeed and provide quality goods and services and will get pushed out of the market by big business who have the war chest required to adapt.
I think the $10 an hour minimum wage in Ontario should stay until 2018 - 2020 at which point we can revisit it. Bottom line is, if you're working for minimum wage, you're fucked anyhow. Get an education or some life experience. Work in a sales environment that is commission ONLY; then either you thrive or you starve. Nothing motivates people to succeed like a "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" enterprise. The more we bubble wrap and artificially protect the bottom of the workforce, the more we do them the disservice of not forcing them to learn how to succeed. The Chinese might live in a society that is polluted and crude by our standards, but those mother fuckers WORK and they don't cry about it. Same with Phillipinos. I've never met a Phillipino who didn't outwork 90% of their colleagues. You know what they say....
GDP goes up when productivity goes up and people learn to work more efficiently. Too many lazy cunts float through their jobs already, and though a high unemployment is a God-Send for slave driving pricks like me, who are quick to say "If you don't want to do the work required, I have a stack of 800 resumes in the office of people who would love a chance to work harder for me than you do" in the bigger picture, the problem with our work force is a culture of entitlement and laziness more-so than set wage rates.
We need some slave drivers up in here and some Chinese and Filipino mo-fos to teach the spoiled ass white boy society we live in what work is like. When I was running a sales team, I only asked one thing of my hiring manager; don't give me any white people. They bitch too much and work too little. I'll take an FoB who speaks Engrish all day long. He's got his green card on the line, which gives him motivation to succeed. Johnny White Boy's main concern is making enough money to buy a new cell phone and the new Call of Duty before he goes back to mommy's basement to smoke weed and be professionally useless until the next CoD comes out.
It is what it is.
I don't have the exact figures to support the argument, but the unemployment rates went through the roof since minimum wage was set at $10/hour.
Higher min. wage will create more unemployment, which will create greater strain on our tax dollars via EI and Welfare, will likely reduce tax incomes, drive up inflation, cranking up the cost of goods and services. Big business will survive, passing the increased cost on to the consumer. Small businesses will fold because they can't afford to hire the people they need to succeed and provide quality goods and services and will get pushed out of the market by big business who have the war chest required to adapt.
I think the $10 an hour minimum wage in Ontario should stay until 2018 - 2020 at which point we can revisit it. Bottom line is, if you're working for minimum wage, you're fucked anyhow. Get an education or some life experience. Work in a sales environment that is commission ONLY; then either you thrive or you starve. Nothing motivates people to succeed like a "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" enterprise. The more we bubble wrap and artificially protect the bottom of the workforce, the more we do them the disservice of not forcing them to learn how to succeed. The Chinese might live in a society that is polluted and crude by our standards, but those mother fuckers WORK and they don't cry about it. Same with Phillipinos. I've never met a Phillipino who didn't outwork 90% of their colleagues. You know what they say....
GDP goes up when productivity goes up and people learn to work more efficiently. Too many lazy cunts float through their jobs already, and though a high unemployment is a God-Send for slave driving pricks like me, who are quick to say "If you don't want to do the work required, I have a stack of 800 resumes in the office of people who would love a chance to work harder for me than you do" in the bigger picture, the problem with our work force is a culture of entitlement and laziness more-so than set wage rates.
We need some slave drivers up in here and some Chinese and Filipino mo-fos to teach the spoiled ass white boy society we live in what work is like. When I was running a sales team, I only asked one thing of my hiring manager; don't give me any white people. They bitch too much and work too little. I'll take an FoB who speaks Engrish all day long. He's got his green card on the line, which gives him motivation to succeed. Johnny White Boy's main concern is making enough money to buy a new cell phone and the new Call of Duty before he goes back to mommy's basement to smoke weed and be professionally useless until the next CoD comes out.
It is what it is.
MetalLobster
TD Admin
I agree Ghett0 with your point about hard work. I keep hearing people say they can't find jobs, but are only applying to retail stores that they like, and even then, they are not willing to work long hours. I'm thankful for lazy workers when I worked in High School, because I got to take all their hours and make 800 - 1000 every paycheck over the summer while getting minimum wage. It easy to deal with the whining when I look at my bank account then.
My opinion on minimum wage is a bit bias, as I know I few people who own small businesses, and in an ideal world, I would like to see it gone and have companies by honest about paying their workers fairly. It is unfortunate that minimum wage does in fact the only protection against being fully exploited, especially in these times.
edit: reword
My opinion on minimum wage is a bit bias, as I know I few people who own small businesses, and in an ideal world, I would like to see it gone and have companies by honest about paying their workers fairly. It is unfortunate that minimum wage does in fact the only protection against being fully exploited, especially in these times.
edit: reword
OG buckshot jr
TD Admin
Is this a typo?
MetalLobster
TD Admin
OG buckshot jr
TD Admin
Re-read it lol
MetalLobster
TD Admin
It's ambiguous and I should have said it's unfortunate that the only thing protecting worker from being fully exploited is minimum wage.
OG buckshot jr
TD Admin
Ahh, typo. OK! 
Ghett0
DARKLY Regular
Work in sales, man. Make your own hours. Your success, your reward. Commission is the truest form of compensation. You want to sit in a fuckin cubicle all day with your thumb up your ass, go for it. In commission based sales (and I don't mean being the dumb fuck at Worst Buy who makes minimum wage plus a nickel for every $1000 he makes his company) people who haul ass, have strong work ethic and a high standard of excellence make a fucking mint.
You can work 12 hours a day and make $30K in a summer, or you can work for 2 hours a day and make $1000 a week. You write your own ticket, and the people who are quitters and whiners get voted off the island and go home with sweet fuck all to cry into. It's not an easy business. You have to be prepared to face the fact that 9 out of 10 people will tel you to go fuck yoursef, but every "Fuck you" is one step closer to the "Fuck yes!" you can tell yourself when you make $1000 in an hour.
Your typical lazy Canadian with his thumb up his ass can't embrace this way of life because they want a guarantee. They want an excuse. They want someone to hold their hand and a safety net and some poor FoB to blame all their failures on and treat like shit. In a pure sales environment, the FoB random who barely speaks English has just as much opportunity to succeed as Johnny Smart Ass with 3 degrees in basket weaving, dick spanking and X-Box. At the end of the day, the sales figures speak for themselves. Either you have the hustle to make shit happen, or you don't.
One summer in sales will give you all the skills you will ever need to succeed at anything you put your mind to for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, it will also make you despise most other work environments because you will realize how incredibly fucking useless most people really are in their workplace.
MetalLobster
TD Admin
I wouldn't despise anyone not working in sales in lieu with what career they have a passion for. I agree that you can make a lot of money in sales, it's a industry with a lot of money in it, but if my kid came up to me and said he wanted to be a doctor because he wants to help people, and I see that he legit putting in effort to do that, I'm not going tell him to work in sales for the money. Money isn't everyone's primary motivation.