Propaganda
TD Member
CSS is random yes, but to limits. The AK recoil algorithm makes this impossible. Furthermore this is a server side demo, there is no lag whatsoever, it's plugged in directly.
[poll] Hacker or no?
- Thread starter Propaganda
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[quote1227247245=Propaganda]
......... The AK recoil algorithm makes this impossible. Furthermore this is a server side demo, there is no lag whatsoever, it's plugged in directly.
[/quote1227247245]
Yes, I've come to the conclusion that, tic rate in demo is tic rate in server. How can it be anything else? In it's basic form, 100 tic means 100 FPS, or 1/100 or 0.01 seconds every one tic, to each player that has the right settings. However, STV doesn't care if the client has the right settings, it records tic for tic.(i.e. look up why some clients don't see the advantage of the full 100 tics)
So with that being said, the physics becomes, how many tics between Kill #1 registration (CSS message) and kill #2, NOT including the tics that happen when the shooter's mind has still NOT registered the kill! (i.e. How many tics and bullets go on after the 1st kill is CSS registered?)
I did this analysis already. You know what happens? 47 tics occur after the immediate posting of the 1st kill, that's 0.01X47=0.47sec later, BEFORE the shooter BEGINS to turn towards 2nd target.
Let's go back:
You know what happens in that 0.47 secs after the 1st kill is registered in CSS (message post)? The shooter continues to put another 4-5 bullets in this dead guy before his brain reacts and begins to turn toward 2nd target. That's 0.47 sec AFTER target #1 is dead!
OK SO WHAT?:
Now what happens? In 7 tics, his CH moves over 10 ft to the left, acquires target, shoots and kills. That's 7ms! Compare that to his time shooting the dead guy for 470ms!
What happened here? I'll tell you what happened here, an aimbot happened here, that's what.
This IS what aimbots do, they move WAY faster then human speed and tic rates are the ONLY way to catch them. This snippet of a round is thus still CONCLUSIVE.
Word.
Edit: typos and some stupid wording.
......... The AK recoil algorithm makes this impossible. Furthermore this is a server side demo, there is no lag whatsoever, it's plugged in directly.
[/quote1227247245]
Yes, I've come to the conclusion that, tic rate in demo is tic rate in server. How can it be anything else? In it's basic form, 100 tic means 100 FPS, or 1/100 or 0.01 seconds every one tic, to each player that has the right settings. However, STV doesn't care if the client has the right settings, it records tic for tic.(i.e. look up why some clients don't see the advantage of the full 100 tics)
So with that being said, the physics becomes, how many tics between Kill #1 registration (CSS message) and kill #2, NOT including the tics that happen when the shooter's mind has still NOT registered the kill! (i.e. How many tics and bullets go on after the 1st kill is CSS registered?)
I did this analysis already. You know what happens? 47 tics occur after the immediate posting of the 1st kill, that's 0.01X47=0.47sec later, BEFORE the shooter BEGINS to turn towards 2nd target.
Let's go back:
You know what happens in that 0.47 secs after the 1st kill is registered in CSS (message post)? The shooter continues to put another 4-5 bullets in this dead guy before his brain reacts and begins to turn toward 2nd target. That's 0.47 sec AFTER target #1 is dead!
OK SO WHAT?:
Now what happens? In 7 tics, his CH moves over 10 ft to the left, acquires target, shoots and kills. That's 7ms! Compare that to his time shooting the dead guy for 470ms!
What happened here? I'll tell you what happened here, an aimbot happened here, that's what.
This IS what aimbots do, they move WAY faster then human speed and tic rates are the ONLY way to catch them. This snippet of a round is thus still CONCLUSIVE.
Word.
Edit: typos and some stupid wording.
vinny paz
TD Admin
I'm sorry Kirock, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
Now I did read that entire post, with all its glorious equations and formulas, and yes, it did make my head spin.
But if I'm reading it clearly then you are saying that the player could not have possibly reacted fast enough to kill the second target. Then it also means that the player didn't have the time to toggle the aimbot in between the first and second kill, and even if he did, the crosshair would have jumped to the taget's head before the bullet did.
Is there a hack I'm not aware of? One that send recoil bullets at targets before the crosshairs reach their destination?
This video is one instance of a random looking shot, and thus inconclusive. Not nearly enough to call hacks and be even remotely certain/
Now I did read that entire post, with all its glorious equations and formulas, and yes, it did make my head spin.
But if I'm reading it clearly then you are saying that the player could not have possibly reacted fast enough to kill the second target. Then it also means that the player didn't have the time to toggle the aimbot in between the first and second kill, and even if he did, the crosshair would have jumped to the taget's head before the bullet did.
Is there a hack I'm not aware of? One that send recoil bullets at targets before the crosshairs reach their destination?
This video is one instance of a random looking shot, and thus inconclusive. Not nearly enough to call hacks and be even remotely certain/
Hmmm, I will show you in demo slow mo cuts.
The first kill takes about 1.0 sec to register(killer killed name)(you do not see this in the movie, for deliberate reasons)
THEN, another 0.47sec occur while the killer shoots the dead (plenty of time, based on my 200ms human reaction time, for a good player to hit their autoshoot key).
In 7ms the shooter's CH transverses a 10-15 ft arc, and acquires target, shoots and kills in 1 bullet the 2nd target. (That IS JUMPING to the targets head!)
How are you going to explain to me anything other then aimmbot? A Source fluke of over 10ft recoil?
The first kill takes about 1.0 sec to register(killer killed name)(you do not see this in the movie, for deliberate reasons)
THEN, another 0.47sec occur while the killer shoots the dead (plenty of time, based on my 200ms human reaction time, for a good player to hit their autoshoot key).
In 7ms the shooter's CH transverses a 10-15 ft arc, and acquires target, shoots and kills in 1 bullet the 2nd target. (That IS JUMPING to the targets head!)
How are you going to explain to me anything other then aimmbot? A Source fluke of over 10ft recoil?
TurboTaco
TD Admin
It is honestly pointless for us to try and 'analyze' the physics behind CS:S. First of all, as smart as we are with basic physics formulas, we are not the developers of CSS and therefore do not know how the engine calculates bullets + recoil especially when there are numerous players playing on the server.
Also, Prop mentioned something about an AK47 algorithm? I am not sure where u get that information, but does it actually show you what the bullet recoil definition is?
The player is running + shooting. Is there no way that would affect where bullets go as well?
Again, i HIGHLY doubt this is hacks unless there are more examples of this behavior. If this is the only case, why would the player kill victim 1 - TOGGLE HACK - and kill victim 2 only once? And as Vinny said, if it is as impossible to kill someone with a HS that fast, how would they also be able turn the hack on/off so quickly too?
My conclusion is:
Isolated incident = Your Standard CSS Fluke
Repeated incidents = Possible (POSSIBLE) hack
I think some of us are putting too serious of an eye on alleged hackers. While some may be sophisticated and do 'toggling' and other under-the-radar activities, the only ones I encounter are plain and clear hackers.
It is only a matter of time before $teve or some other good playing regular gets the scrutiny of an admin calling them a hacker based on single-snippet HS demos.
Also, Prop mentioned something about an AK47 algorithm? I am not sure where u get that information, but does it actually show you what the bullet recoil definition is?
The player is running + shooting. Is there no way that would affect where bullets go as well?
Again, i HIGHLY doubt this is hacks unless there are more examples of this behavior. If this is the only case, why would the player kill victim 1 - TOGGLE HACK - and kill victim 2 only once? And as Vinny said, if it is as impossible to kill someone with a HS that fast, how would they also be able turn the hack on/off so quickly too?
My conclusion is:
Isolated incident = Your Standard CSS Fluke
Repeated incidents = Possible (POSSIBLE) hack
I think some of us are putting too serious of an eye on alleged hackers. While some may be sophisticated and do 'toggling' and other under-the-radar activities, the only ones I encounter are plain and clear hackers.
It is only a matter of time before $teve or some other good playing regular gets the scrutiny of an admin calling them a hacker based on single-snippet HS demos.
OG buckshot jr
TD Admin
[quote1227283539=Kirock]
OMG, you're all banned, based on the suspicion of being idiots and therefore dangerous.
[/quote1227283539]
LOL +1!@
OMG, you're all banned, based on the suspicion of being idiots and therefore dangerous.
[/quote1227283539]
LOL +1!@
vinny paz
TD Admin
[quote1227287473=Kirock]
How are you going to explain to me anything other then aimmbot? A Source fluke of over 10ft recoil?
[/quote1227287473]
All I'm saying is that the possibility of a fluke is definitely there, and it should not be ruled out.
Also, who the hell is this mystery hacker? Is it a regular? A repeat offender? Some random shit disturber? If it is the latter 2, then the hell with him. Nice knowing ya.
BUT, at this point in time TD should be building and preserving its community. I am 100% opposed to permabanning an individual because of a 2 second instance that looked weird. Please, for the good of the server, provide more of these demos from the same player, otherwise it just isn't fair.
How are you going to explain to me anything other then aimmbot? A Source fluke of over 10ft recoil?
[/quote1227287473]
All I'm saying is that the possibility of a fluke is definitely there, and it should not be ruled out.
Also, who the hell is this mystery hacker? Is it a regular? A repeat offender? Some random shit disturber? If it is the latter 2, then the hell with him. Nice knowing ya.
BUT, at this point in time TD should be building and preserving its community. I am 100% opposed to permabanning an individual because of a 2 second instance that looked weird. Please, for the good of the server, provide more of these demos from the same player, otherwise it just isn't fair.
Spinny
TD Admin / Giant Faggot
Except there's no hack there to begin with... I thought aimbots work by moving the crosshair over to the head AUTOMATICALLY and then the bullets get fired.... in this demo, it was just a lucky ass HS, the crosshair didn't zoom over to the 2nd guys head, it was just a lucky recoil while running and shooting....
Although I don't really know what hacks look like/how they work exactly because I myself have never downloaded a hack ever.
PS. it is a TD member eh? Well now everyone has there back against the wall.... funny thing is that short video that Prop posted does remind me a lot of me (jumping over that railing at Short A, which I always do, like its a habit lol) And now that you got my memory rolling, I do remember Prop blowing up on me on Dust2 telling me to go fuck myself or something along those lines like 2/3 weeks ago (when this demo was posted).... so ya, whats the big secret? and that equation kirock = LOL
Although I don't really know what hacks look like/how they work exactly because I myself have never downloaded a hack ever.
PS. it is a TD member eh? Well now everyone has there back against the wall.... funny thing is that short video that Prop posted does remind me a lot of me (jumping over that railing at Short A, which I always do, like its a habit lol) And now that you got my memory rolling, I do remember Prop blowing up on me on Dust2 telling me to go fuck myself or something along those lines like 2/3 weeks ago (when this demo was posted).... so ya, whats the big secret? and that equation kirock = LOL
You do not see the picture do you? The crossair was still on the first guy when the second headshot registered. How is that a fluke, the guys are too far appart.
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