Open discussion- 64 tick vs 128 tick

TinanaBoa

DARKLY Regular
I understand we've gone to 64 tick server so this is just a discussion of the reasoning.

This is from valve's development site
During each tick, the server processes incoming user commands, runs a physical simulation step, checks the game rules, and updates all object states. After simulating a tick, the server decides if any client needs a world update and takes a snapshot of the current world state if necessary. A higher tick rate increases the simulation precision, but also requires more CPU power and available bandwidth on both server and client.

Here is a video explaining basic rates
Here is an video of bad registration
Another good video

128tick servers require:
-higher cpu to transfer more information/frames
-higher bandwidth to update object etc. changes to/from clients
-higher FPS from client

My opinion starts here:
Valve may be right in suggesting that most servers use 64 tick because they have to appeal to the whole gaming community. Majority of gamers are young, have average PC's and majority of servers are small and run on less expensive hardware. So they have to appeal to the majority.

Our server by comparison is a fast well equipped server tied to a good connection.
The regular players [80% of the players on the server everyday] are older, have more income to spend on their PC's and connection. So even though we do not have a competitive server, most of us have the hardware required to play competitive on a 128tick server.

There is a reason ESEA uses only 128tick servers, they can afford it. Players who play on ESEA can afford better PC's than the average player.
Valve cannot have 128 tick servers yet, but hopefully with all the $$ coming in from those keys/skins they will upgrade their servers.

Speaking as a player who spends a lot of time on this server I'd like to experience the best game play I can.
If the server can handle 128 tick and the majority of our regular players have good PC's which can take advantage of the higher tick rate, then we should strive to give the best gaming experience we can.
 

MetalLobster

TD Admin
There's also 100 tick (102.4 tick to be exact? I don't remember) that works really well as a compromise, although there are very few servers that use it in favour of 128 tick.

Also, the money Value makes off keys is most likely to upkeep their current 64 tick servers. I don't think they will upgrade anytime soon, but who know.
 

everyth1ng

DARKLY Regular
I actually have a question for anyone at TD that knows the answer. Is there any way to measure how much load the recent weapon skins, etc. have had on server bandwidth versus when there were no weapon skins, etc? From what I can observe, some pub servers are getting hit harder than other pub servers, but all of them seem to be effected to some degree by the most recent updates. TD had superb performance running at the higher rates over the summer (much better than any other pub server), and it's only recently that it's been choking like a motherfucker at the higher rates.
 

MetalLobster

TD Admin
I actually have a question for anyone at TD that knows the answer. Is there any way to measure how much load the recent weapon skins, etc. have had on server bandwidth versus when there were no weapon skins, etc? From what I can observe, some pub servers are getting hit harder than other pub servers, but all of them seem to be effected to some degree by the most recent updates. TD had superb performance running at the higher rates over the summer (much better than any other pub server), and it's only recently that it's been choking like a motherfucker at the higher rates.

You really think the weapon skins are bogging down servers? If anything, it's got to be the various things that do to the map, like updated chicken physics, new sounds, and other HUD changes.
 

everyth1ng

DARKLY Regular
You really think the weapon skins are bogging down servers? If anything, it's got to be the various things that do to the map, like updated chicken physics, new sounds, and other HUD changes.
I purposely left it open to consider other variables by writing 'etc.'. And I'm just speculating here. It's a bit of a loaded question, I guess.
 

MetalLobster

TD Admin
I purposely left it open to consider other variables by writing 'etc.'.

Oh right. Well, I've been on HG DM server that doesn't allow skins iirc, so maybe you can compare that with another DM server.

I disagree with your statement that all servers have been affected to some degree. I've played on a few that remains relatively the same.
 

everyth1ng

DARKLY Regular
I disagree with your statement that all servers have been affected to some degree. I've played on a few that remains relatively the same.

Fair enough. I was generalizing, and it's good that you called me out on this. However, even the server that I have in mind that seems to be performing the best at the higher rates still seems to be having problems that weren't there not too long ago, but this is merely a subjective observation on my part.
:shrug:
 

TinanaBoa

DARKLY Regular
I do not believe its the amount of players that should determine the rates of the server but rather what type of hardware the majority of players we have playing are using.
The majority of our players have good PC's [above 100fps] and fast internet speeds that can take advantage of a 128 or 102 tick server.

In regards to the server being able to handle 32 players.
This is from a wiki from another gaming community.

Server Bandwidth Calculation
sv_maxrate and rate are the 2 variables that decide the maximum amount of bandwidth each player will use.
To calculate the amount of upload bandwidth your server must have, you multiply your sv_maxrate by the number of players on the server. Thus a sv_maxrate of 20000 with 20 players will require at least 20 * 20,000 = 400,000 Bytes per Second of Bandwidth.
 

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MetalLobster

TD Admin
Fair enough. I was generalizing, and it's good that you called me out on this. However, even the server that I have in mind that seems to be performing the best at the higher rates still seems to be having problems that weren't there not too long ago, but this is merely a subjective observation on my part.
:shrug:

Yeah, the performance on the servers I've played have been erratic because of how frequent the updates are coming. I said relative meaning the rates before the update compared to the rates after a few weeks with a new update, because it's unfair to judge rates right when a new update releases (there's no update schedule or announcement beforehand). So I guess it depends on what time you're talking about.
 

MetalLobster

TD Admin
I do not believe its the amount of players that should determine the rates of the server but rather what type of players we have playing.
The majority of our players have good PC's [above 100fps] and fast internet speeds that can take advantage of a 128 or 102 tick server.

In regards to the server being able to handle 32 players.
This is from a wiki from another gaming community.

Woah, I don't know what I'm looking at here. Can you explain?
 

Low Budget

DGN Staff
Staff member
I'm not gonna keep repeating myself, all your suggestions are subjective. You are saying to put 128 because in YOUR opinion, it is better. But the FACT of the matter is, it's not. The devs since the the CSS days have ALWAYS said, 66 tick for larger servers, 100 for smaller servers. In GO it's 64 vs 128.
Ironically, we only ran 128 tick for the past few weeks. It wasn't running 128 all summer or any time before that. And now all I'm reading is, it was running fine at 128 all summer blah blah blah. Story of my life, it's a load of crap because it was never at 128.
Most people reg better now. Life goes on.
 

everyth1ng

DARKLY Regular
Low Budget, I definitely appreciate all the work that you're doing. With the most recent changes that you guys have made, the server is in a very playable state. I'm just not completely sure about the hit reg yet, as I said in the other thread.
 
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