dumb ass americans

[B.From.Acc]

i don't think health care and coverage should be privatized. even though it is a big tax on the system, IMO it should be a right as a citizen of that country to have your health cared for. the planning and design of a new medical system has to be done well to save money though. like obama said, spending more money on preventing illness, rather than treating illness and then possibly getting those same people back in the hospital a few months later. last year during my clinical rotation i saw this.

and its not always easy to get coverage, these private health care companys have many hoops to jump through, where they try to disqualify you from getting coverage anyway possible. you saw michael moore's movie? people at these insurance companys were awarded bonuses at the end of a year based on how many people they turned away/rejected.

the people who 'think' they are losing something from socialized medicine are selfish IMO. never mind the insurance companys. its why the world is they way it today. people's human nature, selfishness. these people have coverage and are happy. but if they were unable to get coverage anymore, i'm sure their opinion would change.

but i see where they are coming from, "my tax dollars paying for the crack addict/homeless person". i guess it comes down to how you view the world and what you live your life by, everyone has their opinion. mine, i try live after Jesus. if you're rich, give to the poor.

 

[marinerevenge]

[quote1253071448=Steve]

Why should I do it for them? The current system is just an evolution of "survival of the fittest".


[/quote1253071448]

How is a lack of money in a fraudulent to being with system "survival of the fittest" at all?

What about the people who lost their jobs because of the recession, who now no longer have health care. If they die because they can't pay for the medical bill even though they were hard working honest citizens and were affected by the global recession, is that survival of the fittest too?

Hardly. You can't possibly argue evolution (nature) with economic principles (fraudulent systems designed to keep the rich, rich and the poor, poor.

 

[Steve]

[quote1253074334=MarineRevenge]
Hardly. You can't possibly argue evolution (nature) with economic principles (fraudulent systems designed to keep the rich, rich and the poor, poor.
[/quote1253074334]

Evolution does not only pertain to nature. Everything can evolve, from people to technology.

The system is fine. Its far from the "evil machine" you liberals make it out to be. Is it perfect? No, but what system is? I'll take our system over-all, over any other top power in the world today.

 

[Steve]

[quote1253074633=B.From.Acc]
and its not always easy to get coverage, these private health care companys have many hoops to jump through, where they try to disqualify you from getting coverage anyway possible. you saw michael moore's movie? people at these insurance companys were awarded bonuses at the end of a year based on how many people they turned away/rejected.

the people who 'think' they are losing something from socialized medicine are selfish IMO. never mind the insurance companys. its why the world is they way it today. people's human nature, selfishness. these people have coverage and are happy. but if they were unable to get coverage anymore, i'm sure their opinion would change.

but i see where they are coming from, "my tax dollars paying for the crack addict/homeless person". i guess it comes down to how you view the world and what you live your life by, everyone has their opinion. mine, i try live after Jesus. if you're rich, give to the poor.
[/quote1253074633]


Michael Moore is about as credible as bill O'Reilly.

and I think its pretty fucking selfish of the people without health care to expect everyone else to provide for THEM.

Its all nice and dandy if you wish to live your life that way. But this is the problem with this religious shit, people expect everyone else to feel the same way they do, and to act in the way they want(as obama/dem are doing).

Its all good if the rich want to give to the poor, however taking from them to give to the poor(ala robin hood) is wrong. Robin Hood is nothing but a thief.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

To all those that thought I missed the point of the video, I sure did not. What I did was divert a whole debate (as it has become anyway - GJ on the intellect we have on TD :) ) and just say that I don't give a fuck.

Protest or not, educated protesters or stupid ones: the gov't will do what it wants anyway, so this issue is of no news importance to me... The debates, the protests, the analysis by society's useless cunts like Nancy Grace (who take great pleasure - and great pay) to exploit news like a 24y.o. med student's murder, Michael Jackson's death etc. and just talk and talk and talk on TV - they get NOTHING done. NOTHING! They speculate, they spread bullshit rumours for truth (ala Fox news) and contribute to NOTHING! It's all there for ratings and to get the public in a one-track mind while the gov't will do what it wanted to do from day one.

/rant.

 

[LT_Clash]

scocilized health care seems to be workin fine norht of the boarder just fine i dont think its right to make the poor who are usuly the onse who need more medical attention (improper diet and so on) pay more than they can afford even if they don't make taxes cover medical expenses like in Canada they need to address some of the problems in the insurgence system. ex. its actuly against the law so an insurgence company to deny coverage or even charge more for someone with mental conditions or terminal illness, so even tho they are a medical bill waiting to happen they cant charge them more so instead they charge everyone else the same inflated rate in order to cover there losses if they were to remove the latter part of this law it would remove allot of the strain from lower and middle class family's who just need basic medical insurgence but cant afford it because of this law

 

[Leroy]

I think it speaks volumes of the americans. They've been polarized for so long, republican vs democrate, white vs black, god vs allah, they can't see the forest from the trees.

Socialized medicare helps everyone. Americans are so obsessed with they're own financial success, its driving the whole lot of them into insane amounts of debt, trying to keep up with the joneses.

-Brand new house? Check
-Brand new ford pickup? Check
-Brand new boat? Check

work at the 7-11? uh oh

 

[auron]

[quote1253117590=Leroy]
I think it speaks volumes of the americans. They've been polarized for so long, republican vs democrate, white vs black, god vs allah, they can't see the forest from the trees.

Socialized medicare helps everyone. Americans are so obsessed with they're own financial success, its driving the whole lot of them into insane amounts of debt, trying to keep up with the joneses.

-Brand new house? Check
-Brand new ford pickup? Check
-Brand new boat? Check

work at the 7-11? uh oh




[/quote1253117590]
The day I take financial advice from a black guy...

 

[Steve]

[quote1253119434=Auron]
[quote1253117590=Leroy]
I think it speaks volumes of the americans. They've been polarized for so long, republican vs democrate, white vs black, god vs allah, they can't see the forest from the trees.

Socialized medicare helps everyone. Americans are so obsessed with they're own financial success, its driving the whole lot of them into insane amounts of debt, trying to keep up with the joneses.

-Brand new house? Check
-Brand new ford pickup? Check
-Brand new boat? Check

work at the 7-11? uh oh




[/quote1253117590]
The day I take financial advice from a black guy...
[/quote1253119434]



AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHH

EPIC WIN AURON!

 

[B.From.Acc]

hahaha! ^^^^^^^

[quote1253127087=Steve]
Michael Moore is about as credible as bill O'Reilly.

and I think its pretty fucking selfish of the people without health care to expect everyone else to provide for THEM.

Its all nice and dandy if you wish to live your life that way. But this is the problem with this religious shit, people expect everyone else to feel the same way they do, and to act in the way they want(as obama/dem are doing).

Its all good if the rich want to give to the poor, however taking from them to give to the poor(ala robin hood) is wrong. Robin Hood is nothing but a thief.
[/quote1253127087]

it goes both ways! so even though these discussions are important, BJ is right, it gets no one nowhere. the government will do as it pleases.

i agree, michael moore isn't the best source for facts, but it was a head manager at one of these companies that said she got a bonus at the end of the year because she turned away people.

all in all, i'm happy america is the world's greatest super power, not another country.

stealing from the rich and giving to the poor? in canada (correct me if i'm wrong) about %20 of your taxes go to the healthcare system. most of your taxes you will see again, in roads, schools, national and local security (police) and transportation. thats not bad. but i guess for some people thats too much.

-edit: spellzing

 

[marinerevenge]

[quote1253158287=Steve]
[quote1253074334=MarineRevenge]
Hardly. You can't possibly argue evolution (nature) with economic principles (fraudulent systems designed to keep the rich, rich and the poor, poor.
[/quote1253074334]

Evolution does not only pertain to nature. Everything can evolve, from people to technology.

The system is fine. Its far from the "evil machine" you liberals make it out to be. Is it perfect? No, but what system is? I'll take our system over-all, over any other top power in the world today.
[/quote1253158287]

But the System is NOT Fine. The very basic principles of our economics create a perpetual debt that can only get worse - not better.

Put as simply and quickly as possible..

Money is loaned by the bankers, and from where it originates in the "federal" reserve, with the intentions of being paid back. This means that every dollar in existence is owed to the federal reserve and if the system was followed as intended, they would eventually receive every dollar back.

Money is also loaned at interest. Which means that every dollar in existence is loaned out and creates forever a permanent debt. The reason? The principle (money supply) will always be lower than the principle + interest, which is the banking scheme.

This results in a self-perpetuated and indefinitely worsening debt, which in turn creates economic slavery because it is literally impossible to ever free ourselves without destroying the economic system.

The system is Not fine. And i'm not a liberal. My political views align with Socio-anarchism. (socialist + anarchy)

 

[Remy]

Robin Hood = communist.

I also would like to state that Russel Crowe is awsome.

 

[Dawg*]

[quote1253293868=MarineRevenge]
The British health care service is also government run, and paid for fully by taxes and I saw a reporter interview with some of the doctors at one of the biggest hospitals in Britain and it seemed great overall.

Nothing is without it's flaws, and people don't deserve to die for not having health care. Fuck the greedy private companies.

"I believe all men don't have a price"
[/quote1253293868]

After living in the UK for 8 years, I can honestly say that the NHS is a terrible healthcare system. If you require diagnosis for anything other than the common cold, you're pretty much shafted. For any of my major problems back there, i had to go private.
If you want a good system, look to Germany or France.

 

[dead mike]

theres a valid problem with canadian system too, i seen an article where about 20 people in ontario need to get some treatment yearly that allows them to live perfectly healty lives, otehrwise die at before 5 years old. but its like 500 grand to buy equipment and 125 to operate annualluy. the government has to approve treatment, and the hospital has to buy the equipment on their own (donors) dime, fuckin lots of hoops. you go to the states your covered, its hassle free to get this treatment, in canada your up the creek without a paddle cause maybe it gets approved, then there's no hospital with the 500 grand to buy the machine.

on top of things isint there a lot of red tape if you want to get private care here?

 

[Doolox]

[quote1253297529=MarineRevenge]
My political views align with Socio-anarchism. (socialist + anarchy)
[/quote1253297529]

LOL! You are such a tool. What punk "cool dude" singer are you plagiarizing now? LOL!

It is not possible for anarchy and socialism to exist together, unless you are just looking for choice. So you need to pick one or the other. If we had anarchy, you couldn't play with your toys at will because you can't own any. I thought you were progressing Marine. Did you drop out already & start watching even more counter cultural TV? Oh Chr|st!

 

[Doolox]

[quote1253297962=dead mike]
theres a valid problem with canadian system too, i seen an article where about 20 people in ontario need to get some treatment yearly that allows them to live perfectly healty lives, otehrwise die at before 5 years old. but its like 500 grand to buy equipment and 125 to operate annualluy. the government has to approve treatment, and the hospital has to buy the equipment on their own (donors) dime, fuckin lots of hoops. you go to the states your covered, its hassle free to get this treatment, in canada your up the creek without a paddle cause maybe it gets approved, then there's no hospital with the 500 grand to buy the machine.

on top of things isint there a lot of red tape if you want to get private care here?
[/quote1253297962]

One of the other issues with OHIP (Ontario) is that it takes almost 8 years for the average medication to be approved for coverage under OHIP. That means any 'wonder' drugs for cancer that eliminate the use of chemotherapy are not available to those depending on OHIP for coverage. Chemotherapy it is! Therefore, to get the best health coverage you need to buy a 'critical illness' policy because you get a lump sum upon diagnosis of a bigass list of diseases & can then afford to have access to the most up to date treatment.

The point is if you have that policy, you get a lump sum that you can then opt for the 'wonder' drugs and save the good ole immune system. We already have a two tier system in Ontario by this definition because to get the most up to date treatment, you need major cash or insurance coverage for a lump sum pay out.

The best example I can think of was when Jason Blake of the Leafs was diagnosed with a form of cancer and didn't miss a game. Why? He could afford the drugs to stay off chemo & likely had a policy in place anyway for that kind of diagnosis. 2 tier already exists in Canada. The ignorant just want to be told they are looked after, even if they really aren't.

 

[Doolox]

PS... My most above doesn't just take issue with the government. The reason for the 8 year delays is also caused by the cost of 'wonder' drugs upon their initial release.

 

[TurboTaco]

I think he's trying to say that he's all for sharing with everyone so long as they stick it to the 'man' while they're at it

 

[Doolox]

[quote1253298681=B.From.Acc]
all in all, i'm happy america is the world's greatest super power, not another country.

stealing from the rich and giving to the poor? in canada (correct me if i'm wrong) about %20 of your taxes go to the healthcare system. most of your taxes you will see again, in roads, schools, national and local security (police) and transportation. thats not bad. but i guess for some people thats too much.
[/quote1253298681]

It would be hard to imagine a world without the US as the 'super power'. The unknown is fearful, so I would NOT go so far as to say you're 'happy' with the current arrangement just because it is hard to grasp another country assuming that kind of a role. I am not much of a fan of one 'super power' in the first place.

Many of the countries that report the greatest levels of happiness (psychology studies) are in some of Europe's most taxed countries. I believe Denmark was one example I remember reading where health care, public transportation, insurance, etc. are all government run and extremely efficient. With the work I was looking at there is a correlation between taxation and general happiness of a population. Doesn't mean they always spend it appropriately, but it seems to level the playing field, which is what Marine is after..

 

[Doolox]

[quote1253299242=TurboTaco]
I think he's trying to say that he's all for sharing with everyone so long as they stick it to the 'man' while they're at it
[/quote1253299242]

Who's 'the man'? lol. If we are all sharing the wealth a bit more, then are we as concerned with those in a position of power? Likely not if we feel fairly treated.