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Guest, if you wish to appeal your ban, please read these threads first:
READ ME DARKLY Ban Appeal Template + READ ME DARKLY Server Rules
Guest, Ban Appeal threads are for the player appealing and the banning Admin to respond to. All other posts will be removed at the Moderator's discretion.
EXPIRED apalled by recent experiances on darkly servers.
- Thread starter jamiebush
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Fiend
Senior TF2 Admin
Fiend
Senior TF2 Admin
I did not reduce your ban. I told you i was considering it in a previous post, but decided against it since you are unapologetic for the comments you made about our community and admins. You weren't banned for expressing your opinion. You were banned for you multiple comments made against this community. You can try and take the focus off of that all you like, but that's what caused the ban. The amount of time you've spent playing TF2, while impressive, has no merit here regarding your case and this situation.
Fiend
Senior TF2 Admin
No. I never instructed him a price for his item or quote any sort of price from bp.tf or spreadsheet. I responded to defend the back-handed remark and ultimately the additional derogatory comments made about DARKLY and it's community.
Steve, I'm not alright with people bashing the DARKLY community and admins. Neither is DARKLY, according the rule that zackychuu quoted. If there is a rule change, please PM me and let me know. Otherwise, i will continue to enforce the rules as they were written.
Steve, I'm not alright with people bashing the DARKLY community and admins. Neither is DARKLY, according the rule that zackychuu quoted. If there is a rule change, please PM me and let me know. Otherwise, i will continue to enforce the rules as they were written.
Fork Included
TD Admin
Yes, in a free market economy price should be left to the discretion of the seller, who will adjust them based on sales.
But, there are things you need to consider before you can lay the above generalization.
What is your price differentiation based on. If it is based on quality of service or quality of product, then go ahead and sell at a price different from the market average. Generally people sell inferior products or services at a reduced price, and superior for higher. Unscrupulous businessmen sell shit for high, but we won’t get into that.
In TF2 the products are all the same quality and there is no service to provide. Therefore there is no logical basis for price differentiation outside of an item’s rarity.
Raising the price of an item out of greed benefits you in the short term but fucks up the economy in the long run. Inflation is bad.
If Guy A sells a helmet to Guy B for 3 widgets when the average price is 2 widgets. Then the next time Guy B grinds that same helmet he will expect 3 widgets for it. Slowly but surely everyone is now forced to grind more widgets to afford the same level of lifestyle.
SOUND FAMILIAR?
Price Stability is an important part of a healthy economy, and there is only one way to achieve it reliably.
Regulation.
regulation is a necessary thing because on average people are fucking stupid and near-sighted who can’t think 1 day ahead, let alone a year or two.
Helping to enforce an agreed upon market value is not admin abuse or a transgression on anyone’s rights.
But, there are things you need to consider before you can lay the above generalization.
What is your price differentiation based on. If it is based on quality of service or quality of product, then go ahead and sell at a price different from the market average. Generally people sell inferior products or services at a reduced price, and superior for higher. Unscrupulous businessmen sell shit for high, but we won’t get into that.
In TF2 the products are all the same quality and there is no service to provide. Therefore there is no logical basis for price differentiation outside of an item’s rarity.
Raising the price of an item out of greed benefits you in the short term but fucks up the economy in the long run. Inflation is bad.
If Guy A sells a helmet to Guy B for 3 widgets when the average price is 2 widgets. Then the next time Guy B grinds that same helmet he will expect 3 widgets for it. Slowly but surely everyone is now forced to grind more widgets to afford the same level of lifestyle.
SOUND FAMILIAR?
Price Stability is an important part of a healthy economy, and there is only one way to achieve it reliably.
Regulation.
regulation is a necessary thing because on average people are fucking stupid and near-sighted who can’t think 1 day ahead, let alone a year or two.
Helping to enforce an agreed upon market value is not admin abuse or a transgression on anyone’s rights.
the interest of other admins here gives me hope for this comunity. I think I might see how this plays out before dismissing the comunity entirely...
that individual whom I was attempting to compliment earlier, while perhaps expressing an opinion of the state of this community, also gives me reason to hang in here...
however fiends reaction expresses the same traits I've seen in other servers I've boycotted in the past (most of which ended up with reputations of corrupt servers and died off...), combined with experiances ive had with other admins *Not just fiend*; I see an environment where admins, and even community members, tell people prices what they should be selling their items for(undoubtably using the darkly tag to their advantage) to attempt to convince people to sell for these prices... and if anyone contradicts the admins the receive a ban.
franky this is disturbing and I hope that the head admins can recognize this trend and work to prevent darkly from becoming "one of those servers" :S
that individual whom I was attempting to compliment earlier, while perhaps expressing an opinion of the state of this community, also gives me reason to hang in here...
however fiends reaction expresses the same traits I've seen in other servers I've boycotted in the past (most of which ended up with reputations of corrupt servers and died off...), combined with experiances ive had with other admins *Not just fiend*; I see an environment where admins, and even community members, tell people prices what they should be selling their items for(undoubtably using the darkly tag to their advantage) to attempt to convince people to sell for these prices... and if anyone contradicts the admins the receive a ban.
franky this is disturbing and I hope that the head admins can recognize this trend and work to prevent darkly from becoming "one of those servers" :S
i feel like im talkin to bp.tf here... not darkly...
idk what to thinka anymore :S
but if you now beleave its the admins job to uphold a price you have decided upon then I guess darkly is dead to me...
also I dont see how you can say that askin more for items is bad... if anything its good for the economy. the only reason keys are so outragiously overpriced atm is because thats what people value the most, you should be thankful that someone is willing to put their tf2 wealth into something other then keys. if you ask me, an investment in items one beleaves will be values by others is worth 100000 noobs that horde keys...
idk what to thinka anymore :S
but if you now beleave its the admins job to uphold a price you have decided upon then I guess darkly is dead to me...
also I dont see how you can say that askin more for items is bad... if anything its good for the economy. the only reason keys are so outragiously overpriced atm is because thats what people value the most, you should be thankful that someone is willing to put their tf2 wealth into something other then keys. if you ask me, an investment in items one beleaves will be values by others is worth 100000 noobs that horde keys...
Fork Included
TD Admin
so you're saying Fiend intervened in your sale directly? Did he tell you that "you cannot perform this transaction on this server?"
zackychuu
TD Admin / Wanker
Although you seem quite biased, being that you were banned and are probably rather annoyed about it.
Could you care to name these other Admins and Members that have been 'using the darkly tag to their advantage' or maybe even name the Admins that ban people for contradicting them?
As it has been stated here by Fiend before, the people are not 'telling' people what to sell for, they are merely quoting the pricing guides given as a reference.
I could assume that if you went to ANY server, trying to sell a Regular Craft hat for a Key, EVERYONE would tell you that the price is too high (Just using a Craft hat as an example).
It is not just a localised trait of Darkly Admins/Members.
yup... gad you guys picked this guy over my friend who sat in darly servers for days on end givn away free stuff and keepin the servers populated...
but I guess him giving up after about 4 months of applying for adminship and making his own server was an insult to you as well...
and are you kidding me? I wasnt going to apologize to you when you added me directly after banning me and im not going to now.
Im disgusted by your conduct and that of other darkly admins and am currently trying to decide wheither to keep all of your servers blacklisted or give you a 4th chance...
as for the other darkly old-timers who are finding out about this abusive crap, I cant say for certin.
as I said, I'll have to see how this plays out.
Fiend
Senior TF2 Admin
Wait, when did i quote a price or interfere with a deal? I didn't.
Although, honestly, with the way this conversation is going, some people here seem to think it would be a crime to price check an item for someone when requested. THAT is interesting to me, as well.
There was no deal. There was no price quote.
Although, honestly, with the way this conversation is going, some people here seem to think it would be a crime to price check an item for someone when requested. THAT is interesting to me, as well.
Fork Included
TD Admin
Basic free market enterprise theory assumes the following
PERFECT KNOWLEDGE ON BEHALF OF THE CONSUMER
If you believe in free market enterprise, then you should believe in and SUPPORT the dissemination of all pertinent information related to the product and its worth.
If there is a collectively agreed upon value to a product, and that value is published, then all members participating in the economy should be aware of it before making a purchasing decision.
You are still free to sell at whatever price you choose, if someone NEEDS the item more than usual they will pay the higher price, this is the NEED vs WANT argument.
But getting angry at a person (admin or not) for informing the public and then trying to pin it on free market enterprise just proves how little you know about the subject.
PERFECT KNOWLEDGE ON BEHALF OF THE CONSUMER
If you believe in free market enterprise, then you should believe in and SUPPORT the dissemination of all pertinent information related to the product and its worth.
If there is a collectively agreed upon value to a product, and that value is published, then all members participating in the economy should be aware of it before making a purchasing decision.
You are still free to sell at whatever price you choose, if someone NEEDS the item more than usual they will pay the higher price, this is the NEED vs WANT argument.
But getting angry at a person (admin or not) for informing the public and then trying to pin it on free market enterprise just proves how little you know about the subject.
Fiend
Senior TF2 Admin
As i said, you have a right to your opinion about me personally and i would expect that you would since i was the individual that processed the ban.
Your friend being declined admin Has nothing to do with this. Your decision whether to blacklist our servers has nothing to do with this. You are deflecting the derogatory and inflammatory remarks that you made regarding this community. You were banned solely on those comments. I enforced a rule that was quoted in this thread that you broke. Nothing more, nothing less. No deals were interfered with. No prices were quoted.
I added you after the ban to provide you with the website to come and post your complaint, but you blocked the request. That's fine, it's just something that i do when i process a ban.
Ultimately, i gave you ample and sufficient opportunity to provide your appeal and, based on the behavior you demonstrated that lead to your ban and the behavior you have shown on the forums while appealing the ban, your appeal is being denied. The ban is temporary and will be lifted after the one-week time frame.
Fork Included
TD Admin
when steve plays good-cop
Fiend
Senior TF2 Admin
Obviously not based on the previous posts i've made. Feel free to re-read them if you like. If you are still interested in this situation Steve feel free to PM me or accept the friend request on Steam. I will apologize ahead of time for not writing down the entire interaction on paper, if that's what you are looking for.
welp... it would seem that not much has happened here since my power went out earlier.
HOWEVER, If I recall you actually banned me when I didn't beleave you were an admin.
so you go around with no admin tags on, banning people who don't beleave your an admin and refusing to prove it in any way...
yup, that's definatly not admin abuse...
but since my years of patronage are aparently unrelated and unimportant to you, I guess I'm done.
I don't waste my time on servers with abusive admins.
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